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Playing KK when A hits on flop

  
 
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NotSteve
Old 06-26-2005, 09:32 PM     Post subject: Playing KK when A hits on flop #1 (permalink)  

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So I've been playing the Party $25 NL tables and winning pretty consistently (up $1656.90 over the past 3 months, including bonuses). I'm not too sure about the way I played my pocket kings on this hand, so I'd appreciate some constructive criticism. In particular: (1) Was betting the flop a mistake? (2) Was NOT betting the turn a mistake? I know my opponent's play was ridiculous but I just want opinions on how I played it.

#Game No : 2264924587
***** Hand History for Game 2264924587 *****
$25 NL Hold'em - Sunday, June 26, 03:24:32 EDT 2005
Table Table 36570 (Real Money)
Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 3: CKSKYU ( $26.05 )
Seat 4: trottwat ( $79.98 )
Seat 1: Scott73299 ( $36.55 )
Seat 7: smp323 ( $14.2 )
Seat 8: LionEscargot ( $29.4 )
Seat 10: ZeGerman ( $25.15 )
Seat 5: StuckLarge ( $25.85 )
Seat 2: EuroEd ( $24.65 )
Seat 9: Gynthe ( $23.75 )
Seat 6: bbones31 ( $18.8 )
Scott73299 posts small blind [$0.1].
EuroEd posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Scott73299 [ Ks Kc ]
CKSKYU folds.
trottwat folds.
StuckLarge folds.
bbones31 folds.
smp323 folds.
LionEscargot folds.
Gynthe raises [$2].
ZeGerman folds.
>You have options at Table 37036 Table!.
Scott73299 raises [$4.9].
EuroEd folds.
Gynthe calls [$3].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3s, Tc, Ah ]
Scott73299 bets [$5].
Gynthe calls [$5].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Td ]
Scott73299 checks.
Gynthe bets [$8].
Scott73299 folds.
Gynthe shows [ 2h, 4c ] a pair of tens.
Gynthe wins $27.25 from the main pot with a pair of tens.
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spino1i
Old 06-26-2005, 09:34 PM #2 (permalink)  
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I would bet more than half the pot (i.e. the full pot) on the flop.. or you can check on the flop and then raise him if he bets.. but then fold if he reraises

Edit: Also re-raise more pre-flop, make him commit his chips, since he has position on you post-flop.
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NotSteve
Old 06-27-2005, 02:22 AM #3 (permalink)  

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I like your suggestion of a bigger preflop reraise, I don't think I've been giving position enough consideration. So maybe make it $7 to go instead of just $5? I wouldn't raise much more than that preflop because I don't want him folding QQ or JJ if that's what he has (although with the player I was up against here, he's probably putting me all in with QQ in any case). And given the way I actually played the preflop, I could see taking a more decisive stab at the pot on the flop, maybe 3/4 the pot. That way I know for sure I'm done with the hand if there's any further betting. The problem I have with betting the full $10 pot size on the flop is that I'm pretty close to pot committed, since my opponent would only have another $8.75 left if he called. I could also check on the flop but if I do that, I'm folding to any significant bet, again because there's a good chance my kings are beat and I don't want to get pot committed. Seems like there's two ways I could play that flop, either take one solid stab at it or just give up without a fight because of the ace.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 06-27-2005, 02:40 AM #4 (permalink)  
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You were probably going to lose that hand anyway. If you bet the turn, op might likely raise you on a bluff to show it down.

But, yah. You bet the flop when an ace hits, if you get called. You re-evaluate. Check/folding is weak but acceptable. Check/raising is tricky and acceptable. Continuing on the turn is a little bit standard and acceptable.

It's like you can't go wrong. It all comes down to the op.

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H Dogg
Old 06-27-2005, 03:50 PM #5 (permalink)  
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General rule being that if you are the agressor preflop and sense some weakness, try to exploit it. Bet the flop like you hit it, and you'd be surprised what some people fold.
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drmcboy
Old 06-27-2005, 04:39 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 I know my opponent's play was ridiculous but I just want opinions on how I played it.

??

Pre flop OK, but after that he took you down with no hand and an iffy draw and you think his play was bad? Seems like he read you like a high PP book here.

Having said that, the A is tough, I like your bet and agree you can't put much more than 5 or so in there without commiting. Then the 10 gets there on the turn and about 20 more hands he may be in there with have you beat. It's a bluffers delight board, I think 9/10 you're behind here.

Those who say bet the pot... meh. What hand are you repping betting the pot here? Does AK really pot it? I can't see it. 3/4 pot at most, worst case someone has an ISD. If AK bets the pot here, it only gets called if beat.
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NotSteve
Old 06-27-2005, 06:54 PM #7 (permalink)  

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All I meant about my opponent's play being ridiculous was preflop, making a $2 raise and calling a reraise with 24o. Had I raised a bit more preflop he could have either lost the $2 or made a truly absurd call. After that I can't argue with how he played it, my bet on the flop could be (and was) a high PP bluff and he also had a very unexpected straight draw. His bet on the turn was a good play, I was clearly showing weakness with the check. But playing 24o like that preflop, there are much better ways to make money at the $25 tables.
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spino1i
Old 06-27-2005, 07:11 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NotSteve
All I meant about my opponent's play being ridiculous was preflop, making a $2 raise and calling a reraise with 24o. Had I raised a bit more preflop he could have either lost the $2 or made a truly absurd call. After that I can't argue with how he played it, my bet on the flop could be (and was) a high PP bluff and he also had a very unexpected straight draw. His bet on the turn was a good play, I was clearly showing weakness with the check. But playing 24o like that preflop, there are much better ways to make money at the $25 tables.
it was unexpected and he had position on you. That combination doesnt make it too ridiocolous. That type of play at 2000 NL is quite popular.
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gabe
Old 06-27-2005, 08:10 PM #9 (permalink)  
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i think checking is the best move. you won't make any money from betting, you will only lose more. i will call reasonable bets.
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gabe
Old 06-27-2005, 08:30 PM #10 (permalink)  
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generally speaking, when you bet KK on an ace high flop, a better hand will never fold and a worse hand will never call. small pocket pairs will generally want to check it all the way down, and you can always call strange looking bets on the river that could be bluffs:

***** Hand History for Game 2266674441 *****
$100 NL Hold'em - Sunday, June 26, 14:50:52 EDT 2005
Table Table 37123 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 4: GKallai ( $176 )
Seat 2: gabefish ( $123.4 )
Seat 3: kingdeez ( $100 )
Seat 10: yumyum71 ( $25 )
GKallai posts small blind [$0.5].
yumyum71 posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to gabefish [ Kd Ks ]
gabefish raises [$4].
GKallai folds.
yumyum71 calls [$3].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5s, Ah, Td ]
yumyum71 checks.
gabefish checks.
** Dealing Turn ** [ 4s ]
yumyum71 checks.
gabefish checks.
** Dealing River ** [ 6c ]
SpeeedRacer5 has joined the table.
sillycbr has joined the table.
yumyum71 bets [$3].
gabefish calls [$3].
yumyum71 shows [ Qc, Jc ] high card ace.
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ChezJ
Old 06-28-2005, 04:53 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabe
generally speaking, when you bet KK on an ace high flop, a better hand will never fold and a worse hand will never call.
so what exactly is the problem with taking down the pot on an ace high flop with KK in your hand? in your example you gave two free cards to a guy who could very well have outdrawn you and destacked you. betting the flop would have won you the same amount of money at less risk.

ChezJ
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loanhorse
Old 06-28-2005, 08:56 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Thats some opponent you had. AS stated just represent the ace on the flop, by making a continuation bet.
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