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played way too fast.....right?

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cardsman1992

06-15-2006, 04:55 PM Post subject: played way too fast.....right?

#1 (permalink)

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PokerRoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($24.75)
Hero ($34.00)
UTG ($40.15)
UTG+1 ($19.95)
MP1 ($19.55)
MP2 ($16.40)
CO ($32.60)
Button ($10.75)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q

, Q

.
4 folds, CO calls $0.25, Button calls $0.25, SB completes, Hero raises to $1.25, CO calls $1, Button calls $1, SB folds.

Flop: ($4) 3

, 7

, 3

(3 players)
Hero bets $3.5, CO calls $3.50, Button folds.

Turn: ($11) 8

(2 players)
Hero bets $10, CO calls $10.

River: ($31) 8

(2 players)
Hero bets $17.85, CO calls $17.85 (All-In).

Final Pot: $66.70

At what point do you slow down? Looking back, I should not have pushed the river. I could have been beat by 77/33/KK/AA on the flop and was just asking for a call. I was thinking I could be up against any other pocket pair, as well.... Don't want to go to $2 preflop because I want action and didn't just want the blinds. Please dissect....Check/fold turn--is that weak?

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Fnord

06-15-2006, 05:31 PM Post subject: Re: played way too fast.....right?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by cardsman1992

Don't want to go to $2 preflop because I want action and didn't just want the blinds.

Why do you think $1.5 has a higher expection than $2? Do you think your hand has an expection much higher than the money already on the table?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

cardsman1992

06-15-2006, 06:44 PM

#3 (permalink)

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I guess I am just thinking $2 folds out everyone except AA/AK/AA/QQ and I want AQ/AJ/KJ/KQ/JJ and PP down to call. After turn I am behind to 77/88/AA/KK/33 and have crushed everyone else. I think my river play was far worse than turn play.

Either that or I am not understanding what you mean by more expectation than the money on the table, Fnord....

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Fnord

06-15-2006, 06:54 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by cardsman1992

Either that or I am not understanding what you mean by more expectation than the money on the table, Fnord....

If I limped with 33 or 77, I certainly would call there with implied odds and position on your big hand (lets figure that you don't raise often enough OOP and tend to blast away expecting piss poor opponents that look you up with weak hands.) Effective odds are easy, the money I figure to make comes out of the pot. Well, with implied odds, I'm certainly not getting the best of the money in the pot. Poker is a negative sum game, so the money paying off my positive expectation has to come from somewhere, gee I wonder where...

...or in other words, try to avoid being the pay-off bitch.

Which brings us back to the question, how much is your hand worth?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

swiggidy

06-15-2006, 07:00 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by cardsman1992

I think he's saying, "Is your eV for {QQ vs AJ+, KJ+, 22+} > $1 (the money on the table). If it is > then raising $1.25 and getting people to play with you is a good idea. If it is < then it might be more profitable to raise to $2 and take the pot.

Fnord, is this idea in NLHE T&P? I have never seen someone ask this question before.

{EDIT: well, Fnord beat me}

(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

Fnord

06-15-2006, 07:02 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by swiggidy

If it is < then it might be more profitable to raise to $2 and take the pot.

...or give someone the chance to make a really terrible mistake instead of a correct play or marginal mistake. This is particularly important pre-flop here because being out of position you'll be less likely to get the best of it post-flop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

cardsman1992

06-15-2006, 07:09 PM

#7 (permalink)

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OK, got it now.

I will pay more attention to this now.

Operation Grind For Education:

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cardsman1992

06-15-2006, 07:13 PM

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One problem I sometimes have (djzcko has pointed this out to me) is that in the intesrest of making my PF bets along mostly the same line, sometimes I don't hammer my premium hands enough in EP to get crap out of there (as was the case in the AK hand I posted). Taking small pot when I will be OOP the rest of the hand > losing large pot on later streets.....

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Fnord

06-15-2006, 07:21 PM

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But WAIT...

If your opponent(s) are indeed loose enough to regularly stack-off here with hands worse than QQ, you played your hand perfectly!

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardsman1992

to get crap out of there

This line of thinking is poisonous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

cardsman1992

06-15-2006, 07:28 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

But WAIT...

If your opponent(s) are indeed loose enough to regularly stack-off here with hands worse than QQ, you played your hand perfectly!

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardsman1992

to get crap out of there

This line of thinking is poisonous.

OK, now you have me rethinking.

How much is QQ worth to you in expectation if you were hero?

Poisonous thoughts come from being too results oriented....

Operation Grind For Education:

Current BR: $10080(04/06/2009) BR Goal: $15000--I LOVE RB!!!
End date: 31aug2009
Current stakes: $100/200NL FR

cardsman1992

06-15-2006, 07:30 PM

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Off topic, Fnord,

Given some of the hands I posted, how would you exploit my "style" of play? By trapping or going apeshit aggro on me?

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a500lbgorilla

06-15-2006, 07:34 PM

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I like your post flop play personally.

I just dont see what kind of hands are open limping in the CO that have us beat. Unless you know him to be solid, i think you're doing ok.

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

a500lbgorilla

06-15-2006, 07:35 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by cardsman1992

Off topic, Fnord,

Given some of the hands I posted, how would you exploit my "style" of play? By trapping or going apeshit aggro on me?

the few hands ive seen is you having a decent hand up against a better hand.

Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.

Fnord

06-15-2006, 07:36 PM

#14 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by cardsman1992

By trapping or going apeshit aggro on me?

Apeshit Aggro

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

cardsman1992

06-15-2006, 07:57 PM

#15 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by cardsman1992

Off topic, Fnord,

Given some of the hands I posted, how would you exploit my "style" of play? By trapping or going apeshit aggro on me?

the few hands ive seen is you having a decent hand up against a better hand.

I felt like I lose a lot of money because I can't make a marginal laydown, I guess. Sometimes my postflop hand reading skills need work.

You know it's bad when the guy types "Sorry, dude" before hitting the call button. He flipped 8s.

Operation Grind For Education:

Current BR: $10080(04/06/2009) BR Goal: $15000--I LOVE RB!!!
End date: 31aug2009
Current stakes: $100/200NL FR

Fnord

06-15-2006, 08:01 PM

#16 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by cardsman1992

I felt like I lose a lot of money because I can't make a marginal laydown.

Lol, me too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

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