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Play this KK in LAGGY table

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fdnypoker

06-19-2007, 05:00 AM Post subject: Play this KK in LAGGY table

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: NY

Posts: 418

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP1 ($16.10)
MP2 ($25)
CO ($17)
Button ($33.30)
Hero ($14.25)
BB ($24.40)
UTG ($20.20)
UTG+1 ($14.75)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K

, K

.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.25, MP1 calls $0.25, 3 folds, Hero raises to $1.25, BB calls $1, UTG+1 calls $1, MP1 calls $1.

Flop: ($5) 8

, 9

, 6

(4 players)
Hero bets $3, BB raises to $13, UTG+1 calls $13, MP1 calls $13, Hero ?????

Do I put someone on AA here or a set? Possible flush or str8 draw. Getting almost 5/1. Call or lay down?? New to table. Only 3-4 hands seen and they have been semi loose.

It's not how many pots you win, it's what's in them that counts.

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overflow

06-19-2007, 05:09 AM

#2 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Posts: 356

Easy fold, pick a better spot. You don't want to stack off with 4 other people who are obviously going to call you down. Assuming no one has a made straight, you're obviously only drawing to one King, and that's if no one has T7 or 75. My guess is that it will take running Kings, or running K{8,9,6} for you to win this pot, and it's entirely possible that you could lose it to quads even if you do hit runner runner to fill up. Odds Schmods your hand (in this particular situation) basically can't improve and the chances you are ahead here, unless 2 of these players have down's syndrome and the 3rd one escaped from the zoo, are just about as low as you can get this is a very easy fold.

Addendum*:
I'd like to dub this situation "The Keno Call", because just like Keno, by making this call you're taking, at best, -25% equity.

*This was a joke, not a mathematical solution to the function of his calling equity here

mixchange

06-19-2007, 05:51 AM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2006

Location: San Francisco, CA

Posts: 1,665

fold but if table is laggy raise more PF

fdnypoker

06-19-2007, 12:49 PM

#4 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2007

Location: NY

Posts: 418

Right when I put in that preflop raise I knew I blew it. Had to bump it to $2-$2.50,

The table was so bad that I put one on a str8 drw and one on 10-10-QQ. The other person, who escaped from the zoo, pushed AI 3 times with KQ, 55 and A5s.

If you knew that one player was on a st8 draw and one player was on a flush draw is calling right? In other words...you have KK and are going against 2 draws. Costs $10 into a $70 pot. Do you call there?

After some thought I called. Here are the results. I was happy that I put each person on the right hand...or close to it. still lost the hand. Oh well.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP1 ($16.10)
MP2 ($25)
CO ($17)
Button ($33.30)
Hero ($14.25)
BB ($24.40)
UTG ($20.20)
UTG+1 ($14.75)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K

, K

.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.25, MP1 calls $0.25, 3 folds, Hero raises to $1.25, BB calls $1, UTG+1 calls $1, MP1 calls $1.

Flop: ($5) 8

, 9

, 6

(4 players)
Hero bets $3, BB raises to $13, UTG+1 calls $13, MP1 calls $13, Hero calls $10 (All-In).

Turn: ($57) 6

(4 players, 1 all-in)
BB bets $10.15 (All-In), UTG+1 calls $0.50 (All-In), MP1 calls $1.85 (All-In).

River: ($69.50) 2

(4 players, 4 all-in)

Final Pot: $69.50

It's not how many pots you win, it's what's in them that counts.

Penfold

06-19-2007, 03:07 PM

#5 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2007

Posts: 87

on a short stack this is a painfully easy call. once you start buying in full you can think about making this laydown, even then i dont like to fold here vs the players you are describing.

bode

06-19-2007, 03:10 PM

#6 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: May 2006

Location: slow motion

Posts: 4,270

bode is an unknown quantity at this point

raising to $2-2.50 preflop is going to push out hands you want to stay in. Make it $1.50 since there are 2 limpers and as played definitly fold the flop, theres atleast 1 set in there.

Quote:

eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.

Penfold

06-19-2007, 03:19 PM

#7 (permalink)

Join Date: Jun 2007

Posts: 87

and if they turned over their cards and showed a naked fd and a naked sd, you have about 40% equity(giving one of them an ace) so you're correct to call getting ~6:4.

Jimmy Mac

06-19-2007, 08:10 PM

#8 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Drinking your milkshake.

Posts: 950

Bet closer to full pot on the flop.

With a full stack I'd fold. With a short stack getting 5-1 odds i think you have to call this, especially given yr read on the table. The pot odds are too good. Remember you will spike a K over 8% of the time on by the river.

Vrax

06-19-2007, 08:24 PM

#9 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Poland

Posts: 632

$1.75 preflop.

Don't be afraid of felting nice overpair against those morons. $15 stack makes it even easier.

Bet/push or check/raise all-in the flop.

"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy

overflow

06-19-2007, 08:26 PM

#10 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Posts: 356

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimmy Mac

No, he'll spike the one king that wins the pot for him 4.16% of the time (if he can avoid the draw). Kd on the turn most likely gives him 9 outs to the boat, but completes someone's flush. There's no way KK expects to win this pot 1/5 times evem if calling guarantees that you'll see two cards.

Jimmy Mac

06-19-2007, 08:36 PM

#11 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Drinking your milkshake.

Posts: 950

I think we're ahead on this flop fairly often too and If no one has a set its a trivial call. I just tried to pokerstove it, but its tough to do with lots of suited combinations. Was coming out at around 15% equity for the kings but I'm not sure I was doing it right. Anyway, I think it's fairly close but a call given OP's description of the table.

overflow

06-19-2007, 08:38 PM

#12 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Posts: 356

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vrax

$1.75 preflop.

Don't be afraid of felting nice overpair against those morons. $15 stack makes it even easier.

Bet/push or check/raise all-in the flop.

You're being really overzealous with a very vulnerable overpair here. Maybe the donkeys at 10 max will stack off in this spot without two pair/set. This is never a call unless all 3 opponents are complete morons.

The fact that no one had two pair or a set here is the exception, not the rule. You will run into a few instances were the flop raiser has TT-QQ, the first caller has the nut flush draw with two overs, and the second caller has JT, but again this line looks like set/two pair often enough for me to say meh, even if their are 200bb in the pot and I'm only calling 40bb.

OP: could you post the villians' hole cards?

overflow

06-19-2007, 09:10 PM

#13 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2007

Posts: 356

Maybe I'm just spiteful because more often than not when I'm calling overshoves in this spot (heads up, let alone multiway) my overpair is completely crushed, even at 10NL. If the flop was 966 or 699 with two diamonds you might have been in better shape because you have four outs to an almost certain winning hand.

Vrax

06-19-2007, 10:23 PM

#14 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Poland

Posts: 632

[quote="overflowYou're being really overzealous with a very vulnerable overpair here. Maybe the donkeys at 10 max will stack off in this spot without two pair/set. This is never a call unless all 3 opponents are complete morons. [/quote]

They WILL call off their stacks with worse hands. WIth full 100BB stacks we may find a fold or at least exhibit some caution. 60BB makes it no-brainer all-in donkament style. Even, if someone outflopped KK, we have too much equity in this big pot.

Quote:

The fact that no one had two pair or a set here is the exception, not the rule. You will run into a few instances were the flop raiser has TT-QQ, the first caller has the nut flush draw with two overs, and the second caller has JT, but again this line looks like set/two pair often enough for me to say meh, even if their are 200bb in the pot and I'm only calling 40bb.

Folding this hand against lagtards, getting 5:1 is really bad. The fold may be correct against straightforward, conservative players. With LAG's in hand it's big pot time. the only thing I don't like is badly sized preflop raise - OOP against multilimps it's better to slighly overbet, making it $1.75/$2. Then, it's easier to stack one of those monkeys heads up.

"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy

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