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Les_Worm

12-22-2005, 10:15 PM Post subject: Play on this flop?..

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2004

Location: MI

Posts: 1,697

What do you like to do on this flop? I was unsure the best line to keep him around while also making the most money. I also wanna protect my hand from the draws out there.

***** Hand History for Game 3245138581 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, December 22, 18:04:15 EDT 2005
Table Table 65155 (No DP) (Real Money)
Seat 7 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 6: Amistad222 ( $37.10 )
Seat 9: Talent33 ( $41.20 )
Seat 1: Verdimme ( $49.65 )
Seat 2: agent68437 ( $11 )
Seat 7: slimbrady111 ( $34.25 )
Seat 5: cueballcb ( $9.12 )
Seat 8: goldenhawk2 ( $25 )
Seat 4: garywch ( $23.20 )
Talent33 posts small blind [$0.10].
Verdimme posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Talent33 [ Kd Ks ]
agent68437 calls [$0.25].
garywch calls [$0.25].
cueballcb folds.
Amistad222 folds.
slimbrady111 raises [$1.35].
Talent33 raises [$3.40].
Verdimme folds.
agent68437 folds.
garywch folds.
slimbrady111 calls [$2.15].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7h, Kh, 8d ]

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Fnord

12-22-2005, 10:18 PM

#2 (permalink)

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Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

What'cha know about him? What's your table image?

I usually just c-bet here.
If he's a sucker, weak bet.
If he's a thinking player, consider an over-bet small enough QQ/JJ/AK can feel good about putting you on a bluff.
I don't hate a check.

Spots like this are where you get paid off for paying attention.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Les_Worm

12-22-2005, 10:44 PM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2004

Location: MI

Posts: 1,697

I got him at 24/17 over 100 hands. I have a tight aggressive image.

The artist formerly known as Knish
Only mediocre players are always at their best.
Phil Ivey Owns You

Fnord

12-22-2005, 10:46 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Les_Worm

I got him at 24/17 over 100 hands. I have a tight aggressive image.

How far is he taking his hands? Does he like to raise post-flop too?

Probably $5.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

bdawg56kg

12-22-2005, 11:10 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Honolulu

Posts: 1,201

I like leading out for $4 or so. This relly smells like AK that wants to see where its at. AA will come over the top and you can probably get the rest of his stack. If he has AK and you lead, he most likely will raise and you will win a nice pot if not take his stack. If he has QQ and you lead, then he'll probably fold, which sucks, but the reality is you are not getting anymore than a c-bet out of him anyway. If you CR this flop however, then he's gonna be very worried about KK and might be able to find a laydown if he has AA, and if he has AK, I think he can find a relatively easy fold, since the best case scenario is chopping w/AK, figuring you for a slowplayed AA or KK.

Another line is to check/call, and re-evaluate the turn. But I really hate CR'ing here because it tends to define your hand too well and lets villian get off the hook without making any missteps and make the correct laydown.

Also, I wouldn't be so worried about the draws in this case. Unless he's really aggro and/or tricky, he probably doesn't have 2 hearts, much less the straight draw.

Fnord

12-22-2005, 11:16 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bdawg56kg

I like leading out for $4 or so.

My regular c-bet here is $5 to avoid information leakage. If I'm going to weak-bet this I would drop down to $3 because you really want to draw the raise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdawg56kg

This relly smells like AK .... AA will .... If he has QQ...

Also, I wouldn't be so worried about the draws in this case. Unless he's really aggro and/or tricky, he probably doesn't have 2 hearts, much less the straight draw.

You're putting him on too narrow of a range. This guy likes to raise! pre-flop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Les_Worm

12-22-2005, 11:40 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: May 2004

Location: MI

Posts: 1,697

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Les_Worm

I got him at 24/17 over 100 hands. I have a tight aggressive image.

How far is he taking his hands? Does he like to raise post-flop too?

Probably $5.

Doesn't go to alot of showdowns. Passive postflop.

The artist formerly known as Knish
Only mediocre players are always at their best.
Phil Ivey Owns You

Les_Worm

12-22-2005, 11:44 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Join Date: May 2004

Location: MI

Posts: 1,697

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdawg56kg

If you CR this flop however, then he's gonna be very worried about KK and might be able to find a laydown if he has AA

Rarely will you find a 25NL player laying down aces here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdawg56kg

Another line is to check/call, and re-evaluate the turn. I wouldn't be so worried about the draws in this case....he probably doesn't have 2 hearts, much less the straight draw.

Hes just over 17% PFR so I wouldn't rule out a mid suited connector or any two hearts.

The artist formerly known as Knish
Only mediocre players are always at their best.
Phil Ivey Owns You

Fnord

12-22-2005, 11:44 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Les_Worm

Doesn't go to alot of showdowns. Passive postflop.

Don't check.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

bdawg56kg

12-23-2005, 12:06 AM

#10 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Les_Worm

Hes just over 17% PFR so I wouldn't rule out a mid suited connector or any two hearts.

Ah, now I see. I had no idea what those numbers were since I never used pokertracker before. But what Fnord said, since he's passive post flop, I like leading even more.

Fnord

12-23-2005, 12:11 AM

#11 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by bdawg56kg

Ah, now I see. I had no idea what those numbers were since I never used pokertracker before.

My PFR is at around 10% and I'm raising at least TT+/AQ+/AJs+/KQs+ here. In medium gear even more hands. In high gear a shit-load more hands.

edit: oh, from the SB? Nevermind. My range here is more like AQs/JJ+/KQs/trash but I raise bigger.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

edudlive

12-23-2005, 12:17 AM

#12 (permalink)

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Lead, if he is passive and raises then I'd smooth call and check raise the turn (since if he is passive and raised you on the flop, he is likely to lead on the turn)

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Fnord

12-23-2005, 12:19 AM

#13 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by edudlive

(since if he is passive and raised you on the flop, he is likely to lead on the turn)

Interesting... although there is a good chance he makes a really weak turn bet. Why is this line better than 3-betting and keeping the bet sizes nice and meaty leading into an all-in?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

edudlive

12-23-2005, 04:30 AM

#14 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: 100NL 6max

Posts: 623

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by edudlive

(since if he is passive and raised you on the flop, he is likely to lead on the turn)

Interesting... although there is a good chance he makes a really weak turn bet. Why is this line better than 3-betting and keeping the bet sizes nice and meaty leading into an all-in?

I don't want to go as far as to say that it is a better line, just another possibility, I honestly think that 3-betting would be best...but maybe you could mix it in 75-25 3bet-call just for good measure.

If he is the type of passive 25NL player that I remember, he is likely to just call you down even with Aces (river minraise possibly), so just lead and pray that he reraises you just so you can be faced with such a decision!

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(16:02:31) Fleece: that u got real life friends
(16:02:48) Fleece: enjoy ur real life friends
(16:03:08) Fleece: ur e-friends dont wanna knwo about u anymore

Zidane18

12-25-2005, 05:24 PM

#15 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 193

well, the reraise should mean he puts u on KK, AA or AK. unless he has already seen u reraise alot?

I would check the flop and bet very small on the turn.

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