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the "play anythings" are killing me!

  
 
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fishstick
Old 04-23-2004, 05:35 PM     Post subject: the "play anythings" are killing me! #1 (permalink)  
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the setup:

butterbean had been playing everything (and getting damn lucky on his flops) - if he had a face card he'd call raises, and if he paired anything on the flop, he go to showdown.

the hand:

***** Hand History for Game 546003262 *****
0/0 TexasHTGameTable (PL) - Fri Apr 23 00:37:31 EDT 2004
Table Buttered popcorn (Real Money) -- Seat 10 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Simon4031 ( $26.25)
Seat 2: fishstick ( $26.65)
Seat 3: toad76 ( $4)
Seat 4: Bbatml ( $32.25)
Seat 5: butterbean3 ( $35.90)
Seat 6: Danimal25 ( $45.50)
Seat 7: EagleOwl ( $23.75)
Seat 8: p_hsu ( $11.95)
Seat 9: buddybutler7 ( $11.25)
Seat 10: PathyTech ( $38.45)
Simon4031 posts small blind (0.25)
fishstick posts big blind (0.50)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to fishstick [ Kd, Qd ]
buddybutler7: p jj
toad76 calls (0.50)
Bbatml folds.
butterbean3 calls (0.50)
Danimal25 folds.
EagleOwl folds.
p_hsu folds.
buddybutler7 calls (0.50)
PathyTech calls (0.50)
Simon4031 folds.
fishstick checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ 6h, Qh, Js ]
fishstick bets (2)
toad76 raises (3.50) to 3.50
toad76 is all-In.
butterbean3 calls (3.50)
buddybutler7 folds.
PathyTech folds.
fishstick calls (1.50)
Creating Main Pot with $12.60 with toad76
** Dealing Turn ** : [ 5d ]
fishstick bets (10)
butterbean3 calls (10)
** Dealing River ** : [ Ad ]
fishstick checks.
butterbean3 bets (15)
fishstick calls (12.65)
fishstick is all-In.
Creating Side Pot 1 with $43.05 with fishstick
** Summary **
Main Pot: $12.60 | Side Pot 1: $43.05 | Side Pot 2: $2.35 | Rake: $2.90
Board: [ 6h Qh Js 5d Ad ]
Simon4031 balance $26, lost $0.25 (folded)
fishstick balance $0, lost $26.65 [ Kd Qd ] [ a pair of queens -- Ad,Kd,Qd,Qh,Js ]
toad76 balance $0, lost $4 [ Qs Ks ] [ a pair of queens -- Ad,Ks,Qs,Qh,Js ]
Bbatml balance $32.25, didn't bet (folded)
butterbean3 balance $64.90, bet $29, collected $58, net +$29 [ Jc 6s ] [ two pairs, jacks and sixes -- Ad,Jc,Js,6s,6h ]
Danimal25 balance $45.50, didn't bet (folded)
EagleOwl balance $23.75, didn't bet (folded)
p_hsu balance $11.95, didn't bet (folded)
buddybutler7 balance $10.75, lost $0.50 (folded)
PathyTech balance $37.95, lost $0.50 (folded)

my analysis:

- the best pre flop raise i could have done would have been $2.75 which wouldn't have folded butterbean. i'm wouldn't normally throw that much out on KQ pre-flop, especially as the bb and being the first to act

- my post flop $2 bet and calling of toad's raise was fine as i had top pair K kicker

- as toad was all-in and not a worry anymore, my turn $10 bet was ok ($5 would have probably been better) - i wanted butterbean to fold before he caught a lucky card - not happy that he didn't fold, now i'm wondering if he has something beyond a pair

- my river check, and then call of butterbean's $15 bet put me in dumbass land! - that really should have told me he did have something. looking at it after the fact, his play was pretty transparent.

after a rebuy and a few hands, i got my money back (and then some) with a nut flush.

so, what do you do with these "play anything" guys? i'm finding it really difficult to put them on a hand? are they chasing a draw? did they get lucky on the flop? in this case, i would have felt better if he'd slow-played me with a set.

any help reading these "players" would be appreciated.

thanks!
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Aces
Old 04-23-2004, 06:12 PM #2 (permalink)  
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I'd still have to raise w/ KQs to at least $2. He may have still called, but he'd be paying to play w/bad hands, which is what you want. By not raising, you're also giving everbody else at the table a chance to limp in with mediocre hands and catch a lucky flop.

The bad thing is you didn't have position on him. I love playing with these guys, especially when you've got position.

He actually played it well post-flop, I thought. Of course playing J6o is pretty stupid, but that's why you don't let them limp. It's a little more difficult if their going all-in preflop on those hands(well, usually it would at least be J6s, lol). Ran into one of those last night on the $100NL but he quckly crashed before I could relieve him of much of his cash.
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fishstick
Old 04-23-2004, 07:27 PM #3 (permalink)  
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i think you hit on a really key point - position on them. they do seem to escalate their bets, or throw some raises back if they hit their hand. other wise it's call, call, call.

in the future, if i don't have position, i'm going to be much more careful.

so much to learn, but it's a journey...
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Fnord
Old 04-30-2004, 04:09 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishstick
i think you hit on a really key point - position on them. they do seem to escalate their bets, or throw some raises back if they hit their hand. other wise it's call, call, call.

in the future, if i don't have position, i'm going to be much more careful.

so much to learn, but it's a journey...
A maniac or extreme call station with good position on you is a solid reason to think about if you're at the right table or can move to another seat.
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fishstick
Old 04-30-2004, 07:18 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
A maniac or extreme call station with good position on you is a solid reason to think about if you're at the right table or can move to another seat.
very true, and i am getting better about moving in situations such as this. in this case, i knew i could nail this guy if i just had the right hand, and that clouded my thinking.
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