Originally Posted by michael1123

Pretty standard semibluff. Got to bet out any other draws, particularly if there's an ace high flush draw out there, and if you get called by a pair or something, you still have a 30% chance to win. But with how little strength shown by the other players, you don't expect a call either.

Originally Posted by AvatarKava

Krapp,

What can you do if a J, Q or A (not a club).. heck, even a king, hits here? Any of those and you figure one of the six players left in the pot made a pair, and your K has a good shot of being outkicked. The only card I'd love to see there is :Ac: ...

Originally Posted by AvatarKava

This is a pretty big pot already - why get greedy when you're pretty sure you can take it down immediately?

Originally Posted by Krapp

You must be talking about the turn. I am not sure if Fnord would semi-bluff if those cards dropped on the turn. I would still bet 2x-3x on the turn, showing agression. Any re-raise still worries me, but at least Im showing agression with a good outs on the river.

Originally Posted by AvatarKava

Nope. Talking about the river, based on the first line of your post before:

Originally Posted by AvatarKava

Maybe you meant the flop? I'm confused, since it seems to contradict with the rest of your post ...

Originally Posted by AvatarKava

I thought his play on the turn was ideal. I wouldn't want to give a free river card under any circumstances.

Originally Posted by Krapp

Flop:
(1) Whats with all these 1x bets? Something smells weak on this table. Anyways the CO to me looks like they gave-up with a 1x call. I am normally under the impression the raiser needs to bet/raise when the flop hits. Looks like CO missed whatever 2-high cards they had and through .50 in for giggles.

Originally Posted by Krapp

(2) Although probably a good play, I dont like the check. I am assuming the opps (especially the CO raiser) will bet something intelligently to try and fold any chasers. It looks like there are 6opps on the flop and I would think theres a good chance someone will bet/raise 4x+ or more.
(3) I would bet 2x or 3x instead of the check. At least it shows im the agressor and maybe the opps will call/fold, hopefully not raise, keeping my pot odds in good shape. Now Im still under the threat of a raise, but at least I am showing as the agressor and in this situation, everyone probably react the same way and call.

Originally Posted by Krapp

Turn:
(1) If a nice club drops, you can probably assume the best hand (other than Ax of clubs). Now 6 ppl are in, you with a close nut, my play would be check. I am hoping someone caught trips, straight, smaller flush, 2pair, etc. Just about any other catch from the 6-opps should give you winning play. If noone catches, I would do the same on the river. However, I would be a little worried with another club on the river (not Ace club obviously)

Originally Posted by Krapp

(2) Although there are a few cards that can beat you (Ax clubs, someone turning 2-pair or trips into a full), from the betting I would assume noone had trips and the real threat was the Ax clubs. In that case, I am willing to give a free river card and try the check trap again (assuming I hit the flush on the turn.) If I miss the flush, I could hit the straight or flush on the river. Making the same check trap good (especially with a flush)
the free river card and hopefully someone will improve.
(3) The big raise semi bluff looks good, and if someone calls, looks like you still have some good outs. Although, its limiting your winnings to the pot (maybe $4 of extra money) on the expected folds. I am guessing you might get calls from trips, straights, top pair flush draws (diamonds and clubs), maybe even 2-pair

Originally Posted by Krapp

I am guessing you might get calls from trips, straights, top pair flush draws (diamonds and clubs), maybe even 2-pair

Originally Posted by michael1123

Krapp, I think you have a hole in your reasoning here. You said to bet the flop, UTG, on the draw. Ok, fine. But then you say if your flush hits you should check, and apparantly raise? Same on the river? Then why did you bet on the flop?

Originally Posted by michael1123

The best thing about leading on a draw is if you hit it, your hand is much more disguised. Not many players will be putting you on a flush, so at the very least lead out and bet as much as you did on the flop, if not more because of the bigger pot. The bet on the flop and then check when a draw hits is sometimes an obvious hit as well, with the nuts.

Originally Posted by michael1123

Clearly no one has any of those hands in this case.

Originally Posted by Krapp

The reason I would check the turn (betting is also good) is to show weakness, b/c the previous bet I was the agressor.

Originally Posted by michael1123

Well, duh, obviously that's the attempt. But there's two problems with your attempt at deception here. 1. There's no real need for it. A bet that's exactly the size of your flop bet comes off as weak as well.

Originally Posted by michael1123

2. The check may send up red flags faster than the flop bet. Lets say they're putting you on AT or better. You bet, then a rag comes with 3 clubs and you check? Wouldn't you at least feign strength to try and prevent from being bluffed out, and not give a high club a free card?