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patience is a virtue

  
 
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edudlive
Old 09-07-2005, 11:00 PM     Post subject: patience is a virtue #1 (permalink)  
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edudlive
This maniac was just throwing chips around for the 2 hours I was at the table, stealing pots left and right. I'd only win marginal pots off him, until now...this is why patience is good

PokerStars Game #2521960123: Hold'em No Limit ($0.05/$0.10) - 2005/09/07 - 18:53:37 (ET)
Table 'Ostanina' Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: bsanders812 ($4.60 in chips)
Seat 2: smiter45 ($33.25 in chips)
Seat 3: bahazel1 ($3.70 in chips)
Seat 4: catdog69 ($2 in chips)
Seat 5: edudlive ($17.40 in chips)
bsanders812: posts small blind $0.05
smiter45: posts big blind $0.10
catdog69: posts big blind $0.10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to edudlive [Kh Ah]
bahazel1: calls $0.10
catdog69: checks
edudlive: raises $0.30 to $0.40
bsanders812: folds
smiter45: calls $0.30
bahazel1: folds
catdog69: calls $0.30
*** FLOP *** [Qh Jh 6h]
smiter45: bets $0.10
catdog69: calls $0.10
edudlive: raises $0.10 to $0.20
smiter45: raises $32.65 to $32.85 and is all-in
catdog69: folds
edudlive: calls $16.80 and is all-in
*** TURN *** [Qh Jh 6h] [8d]
*** RIVER *** [Qh Jh 6h 8d] [6s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
smiter45: shows [4h 5h] (a flush, Queen high)
edudlive: shows [Kh Ah] (a flush, Ace high)
edudlive collected $33.70 from pot
smiter45 said, "uomnh"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $35.45 | Rake $1.75
Board [Qh Jh 6h 8d 6s]
Seat 1: bsanders812 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: smiter45 (big blind) showed [4h 5h] and lost with a flush, Queen high
Seat 3: bahazel1 folded before Flop
Seat 4: catdog69 folded on the Flop
Seat 5: edudlive (button) showed [Kh Ah] and won ($33.70) with a flush, Ace high

He had made comments previous to this about me being a "shitty" player (which I'm still debating turning into PS so he can get his chat disabled)
(16:02:25) Fleece: u think ur liked now?
(16:02:31) Fleece: that u got real life friends
(16:02:48) Fleece: enjoy ur real life friends
(16:03:08) Fleece: ur e-friends dont wanna knwo about u anymore
 
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PokerPatNEU
Old 09-08-2005, 02:22 AM #2 (permalink)  
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PokerPatNEU
Kind of an unfortunate hand for him. There was a thread a couple weeks ago about the odds of two people flopping a flush. The basic concensus is that if you make a flush (excluding if theres 4 to the flush on the board of course) and someone else makes a bigger one, they are basically taking your stack almost every time without a solid read. He probably coulda saved himself some headache by raising to 3$ instead of all in....If you pushed from there he'd probably think twice but still wind up paying your flush off. Nh for you, sucks to be him.
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DimitriT
Old 09-08-2005, 03:10 AM #3 (permalink)  
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I bet the pucker factor went a bit higher when the board paired. Nice hand.
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edudlive
Old 09-08-2005, 03:44 AM #4 (permalink)  
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edudlive
Quote:
Originally Posted by DimitriT
I bet the pucker factor went a bit higher when the board paired. Nice hand.
Nah, I knew he either had a pair of kings or the flush based on his previous play (had a pretty good read on him, very predictable player), but not a set. He had been giving me hell after I tried putting him all in with boats a few times (a few 4-5 dollar pots but nothing major) so he was looking for a chance to take my stack...this however wasn't his lucky day

I didn't plan on doubling up, I just wanted a big pot...he made the all in call.
(16:02:25) Fleece: u think ur liked now?
(16:02:31) Fleece: that u got real life friends
(16:02:48) Fleece: enjoy ur real life friends
(16:03:08) Fleece: ur e-friends dont wanna knwo about u anymore
 
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Rondavu
Old 09-08-2005, 12:18 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Rondavu
It just as easily could have been you calling his push while YOU held 4h 5h, since he had a loose image.
It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
 
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ejdewey
Old 09-08-2005, 12:41 PM #6 (permalink)  
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ejdewey
PokerPat referenced an earlier post about the odds on two players flopping a flush, but what are the odds of this one: 3 players all hit a flush on the river with only 3 cards on the board. The odds on this one must be darn near 0%

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG+1 ($1.51)
MP1 ($1.69)
Hero ($3.90)
CO ($1.40)
Button ($1.93)
SB ($2.53)
BB ($2.14)
UTG ($2.30)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with K, 9.
UTG calls $0.02, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.02, Hero calls $0.02, 2 folds, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($0.10) A, J, 2 (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($0.10) K (5 players)
SB bets $0.02, BB folds, UTG calls $0.02, MP1 calls $0.02, Hero calls $0.02.

River: ($0.18) T (4 players)
SB bets $0.1, UTG raises to $0.3, MP1 calls $0.30, Hero raises to $0.6, SB folds, UTG raises to $2.14, MP1 calls $1.35 (All-In), Hero raises to $3.68, UTG calls $0.12 (All-In).

Final Pot: $7.87
Main Pot: $5.23, between MP1, Hero and UTG. > Pot won by Hero ($5.23).
Pot 2: $1.22, between Hero and UTG. > Pot won by Hero ($1.22).
Pot 3: $1.42, returned to Hero.

Results in white below:
UTG has 4d 8d (flush, ace high).
MP1 has 5d 3d (flush, ace high).
Hero has Kd 9d (flush, ace high).
Outcome: Hero wins $7.87.

I guess the comments are true though, when 2 hit the flush one will lose his stack, but I would think the lower flush might reconsider the call with that much action. Then again, since there was a straight possibility on the board, maybe not.
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edudlive
Old 09-08-2005, 01:41 PM #7 (permalink)  
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edudlive
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondavu
It just as easily could have been you calling his push while YOU held 4h 5h, since he had a loose image.
I'm not going to put my stack on the line with a medicore holding like that (flush with 4 and 5), I wasn't even going to put my stack on the line with the nuts. This is the way I do it regardless of how aggro/loose of a guy it is...since people at this limit will come into a hand with Qh2h or Khxy etc and chase the flush
(16:02:25) Fleece: u think ur liked now?
(16:02:31) Fleece: that u got real life friends
(16:02:48) Fleece: enjoy ur real life friends
(16:03:08) Fleece: ur e-friends dont wanna knwo about u anymore
 
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PokerPatNEU
Old 09-08-2005, 01:45 PM #8 (permalink)  
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PokerPatNEU
Quote:
Originally Posted by edudlive
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondavu
It just as easily could have been you calling his push while YOU held 4h 5h, since he had a loose image.
I know better than to put all my chips in on a flush with 45, I might lose a lot, but I'm not risking my stack
You know a lot better than me then . When i flop a flush i am trying to block hands like big flush draws, TPTK with a flush draw, two pairs and sets from making boats...It takes a pretty serious raise reraise rereraise rerereraise rerererereraise flop for me to stop and consider that my small flopped flush is beat. You will have the best hand a pretty good majority of the time that you get action when you flop a small flush.
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edudlive
Old 09-08-2005, 01:51 PM #9 (permalink)  
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edudlive
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerPatNEU
Quote:
Originally Posted by edudlive
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rondavu
It just as easily could have been you calling his push while YOU held 4h 5h, since he had a loose image.
I know better than to put all my chips in on a flush with 45, I might lose a lot, but I'm not risking my stack
You know a lot better than me then . When i flop a flush i am trying to block hands like big flush draws, TPTK with a flush draw, two pairs and sets from making boats...It takes a pretty serious raise reraise rereraise rerereraise rerererereraise flop for me to stop and consider that my small flopped flush is beat. You will have the best hand a pretty good majority of the time that you get action when you flop a small flush.
This is exactly why I won't put all my chips in the middle with something like 45h and a flopped flush. At 10NL those people holding Ah and Kh are going to call the all in looking for their (better) flush, and all in they will call a lot more often than a large raise (why is that?)
(16:02:25) Fleece: u think ur liked now?
(16:02:31) Fleece: that u got real life friends
(16:02:48) Fleece: enjoy ur real life friends
(16:03:08) Fleece: ur e-friends dont wanna knwo about u anymore
 
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PokerPatNEU
Old 09-08-2005, 01:57 PM #10 (permalink)  
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PokerPatNEU
Quote:
Originally Posted by edudlive

This is exactly why I won't put all my chips in the middle with something like 45h and a flopped flush. At 10NL those people holding Ah and Kh are going to call the all in looking for their (better) flush, and all in they will call a lot more often than a large raise (why is that?)
Are you saying you don't want to get all your money in with a small made flush because you're afraid your opponent might call you with Ah or Kh and suckout?
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lowBoy
Old 09-08-2005, 03:44 PM #11 (permalink)  
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lowBoy
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerPatNEU
Quote:
Originally Posted by edudlive

This is exactly why I won't put all my chips in the middle with something like 45h and a flopped flush. At 10NL those people holding Ah and Kh are going to call the all in looking for their (better) flush, and all in they will call a lot more often than a large raise (why is that?)
Are you saying you don't want to get all your money in with a small made flush because you're afraid your opponent might call you with Ah or Kh and suckout?
That's what it sounds like to me.

If you've got a flush off the flop, no matter how small, the hand you're really worried about is someone with a set. A set in the hands of an aggressive player will often get bet hard, especially if they've been the one leading the hand preflop.

If you have a flush and the other player holds a high card of that suit, there are only 7 flush cards left in the deck, giving someone who pushes AI on the flop around 28% to hit his higher flush by the river. Take it to the turn, and opp only has 14% or 15% to hit on the river. If villain had top pair as well as the higher flush draw, his odds get to around 30% by the river.

Give someone a set, and he has slightly more odds to beat you from the flop (34%), and around 22% on the river.

Even if you are up against a set, if you get some action from your hand, push if you think it's going to get a call, or at least bet pot. You'll almost always be making the right move (other than those instances that you're up against a higher flush, which are rare).
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