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Passively played KQs yawn

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Renton

03-07-2006, 11:16 PM Post subject: Passively played KQs *yawn*

#1 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,991

The tiny preflop min raise made me think I might be up against a big pair, but I had no read so I made the call. I called the cbet and then when he checked the turn I figured he misst the flop, but checked anyway so he might bet on fifth. He didn't so I figured there was an excellent chance MHWG.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

SB ($6.53)
BB ($14.49)
UTG ($60.17)
UTG+1 ($24.71)
MP1 ($27.15)
MP2 ($43.74)
MP3 ($25.79)
CO ($24.65)
Hero ($24.65)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q

, K

. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
3 folds, MP2 raises to $0.5, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.50, 1 fold, BB calls $0.25.

Flop: ($1.60) 6

, Q

, 9

(3 players)
BB checks, MP2 bets $0.93, Hero calls $0.93, BB folds.

Turn: ($3.46) T

(2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero checks.

River: ($3.46) 5

(2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets $2, MP2 calls $2.

Final Pot: $7.46

Results in white below:
MP2 has 8c 8d (one pair, eights).
Hero has Qc Kc (one pair, queens).
Outcome: Hero wins $7.46.

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Renton

03-07-2006, 11:22 PM

#2 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,991

Here another one. This time I knew I was up against AA.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

BB ($15.74)
UTG ($23.90)
UTG+1 ($23.71)
MP1 ($22.40)
MP2 ($37.80)
MP3 ($46.31)
CO ($25.44)
Button ($24.30)
Hero ($28.08)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K

, Q

. Hero posts a blind of $0.10.
3 folds, MP2 calls $0.25, MP3 raises to $1, 2 folds, Hero (poster) calls $0.90, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.75.

Flop: ($3.25) K

, 3

, Q

(3 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets $3.1, MP3 raises to $6.2, Hero calls $6.20, MP2 folds.

Turn: ($18.75) J

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $5.18, Hero calls $5.18.

River: ($29.11) 7

(2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $7.73, Hero calls $15.70 (All-In), MP3 calls $7.97.

Final Pot: $60.51

Results in white below:
MP3 has Ah As (one pair, aces).
Hero has Kd Qd (two pair, kings and queens).
Outcome: Hero wins $60.51.

journey075

03-08-2006, 12:16 AM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 725

h1: i raise flop.

h2: great flop play, great turn play, great river play as long as you know he has AA. c/ring the flop looks suspicious and AA might slow down. raising turn is awful as the J looks like a terrible card. c/ring river basically says your chips are mine and at this point he cant get away from the hand.

i play the same even if i dont put him on AA. he HAS to have AK/AA here. either that or KQ.

Renton

03-08-2006, 12:26 AM

#4 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,991

Quote:

Originally Posted by journey075

h1: i raise flop.

really? Even given the possible read that he has a big pair in the hole?

journey075

03-08-2006, 12:34 AM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 725

flop is gonna be the cheapest place to find out. you cant really assume hes going to check turn.

midas06

03-08-2006, 12:37 AM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: NZ

Posts: 2,196

Yeah, I raise the flop in hand 1.

I love in hand 2 how MP2 pots it then folds to a minraise

bdawg56kg

03-08-2006, 02:05 AM

#7 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Honolulu

Posts: 1,201

Hand 1. Why are you so suspicious of a big PP with a minraise preflop? Is this the new trend? I don't mind raising the flop or calling and re-evaluating the turn. I would def bet this turn though. Lot of ugly cards can come on the river.

Hand 2. KQs is a pretty hand, but it is easily dominated. Add to that your crappy position, and I think this is a fold preflop. I like the flop play. I would probably CR all in on the turn. Jack should not be a scare card for you. Only AT and JJ have you beat now that were behind on the turn, and given the flop action, it's pretty safe to think villian has neither. Your river line makes no sense. If you c/c the turn, then you should c/c the river. If you are looking to get all in, then the turn is the place to make a move, since you will either both be all in on the turn, or both of you will be committed. That is what you wanted right?

Lastly, how can you possibly put him squarely on AA? That's ridiculous. Not even pros can pin their opponent on one specific hand, barring exceptional reads and obvious bad play. You have to put him on a range of possible hands, and I don't see why you exclude KK/QQ.

Renton

03-08-2006, 02:29 AM

#8 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,991

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdawg56kg

Hand 1. Why are you so suspicious of a big PP with a minraise preflop? Is this the new trend?

Yes, along with limp-raising I see donks do this constantly. They're so afraid they won't get action, and since they don't multitable, they won't see this hand again for a while.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdawg56kg

Hand 2. KQs is a pretty hand, but it is easily dominated. Add to that your crappy position, and I think this is a fold preflop.

I call with KQs in the face of a raise and play it just as if I called a raise with any other suited connector. Its a terrific drawing hand. In this situation, I always play KQs for the straight, flush or two pair only (as I would ANY drawing hand).

I also, given my other numerous poker handicaps, am really good at knowing when to fold a dominated pair. Not to brag, but I honestly can't remember the last time I lost a hand because of a dominated pair, xcept maybe in a tournament where you have no choice BUT to be dominated sometimes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdawg56kg

I would probably CR all in on the turn. Jack should not be a scare card for you. Only AT and JJ have you beat now that were behind on the turn, and given the flop action, it's pretty safe to think villian has neither. Your river line makes no sense. If you c/c the turn, then you should c/c the river. If you are looking to get all in, then the turn is the place to make a move, since you will either both be all in on the turn, or both of you will be committed. That is what you wanted right?

Like I said, I put him on AA, and went with my read. By that, I figured he only had two outs to win, and I didn't know if he was cognizant enough to be capable of folding aces, so I tried to subtly get all of his money in there in the most non threatening way.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bdawg56kg

Lastly, how can you possibly put him squarely on AA? That's ridiculous. Not even pros can pin their opponent on one specific hand, barring exceptional reads and obvious bad play. You have to put him on a range of possible hands, and I don't see why you exclude KK/QQ.

IMO, only AA and AK play like this. If he'd flopped a set of Kings or Queens he'd have treaded much more lightly. He wouldn't have felt the need to protect his hand with a flop minraise. That raised screamed overpair, I thought, and since the only overpair is AA....

bdawg56kg

03-08-2006, 06:21 AM

#9 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Honolulu

Posts: 1,201

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

Renton, I can respect your read of AA/AK, but the point is that seeing another card will only make both of you "weaker", barring a miracle card. If he has AA, then hitting a ten would give him the nut straight, and if you hit your 4-outer to fill up, then both of you would have monster hands, but as a consequence the other player would probably not be willing to put more money in, and the action would dry up. That is why getting more money in on the turn is essential to stacking this guy. Also, if he has AA, he has 8 outs to beat you, not 2. That gives even more reason to get more money in on the turn, you want to protect your semi-vaunerable hand. Thinking players check behind on the river a lot more than you'd expect with AA here. I would probably lead the turn 1/2 - 2/3 pot and get the rest in on the river. A tight solid player will probably fold AA to a turn CR, if not check behind and look to showdown cheap.

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Passively played KQs *yawn*

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Passively played KQs yawn