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Overpair vs unders on flop

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joshuadzl

04-25-2006, 06:24 AM Post subject: Overpair vs unders on flop

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Nov 2005

Location: Seattle, Wa

Posts: 287

FullTiltPoker Game #591871612: Table Riviera - $0.10/$0.25 - No Limit Hold'em - 1:16:36 ET - 2006/04/25
Seat 1: natojo99 ($20.30)
Seat 2: JokerStars ($24.65)
Seat 3: bigo3810 ($15.15)
Seat 4: jrdutch ($27.35)
Seat 5: The Platypuss ($25)
Seat 6: ctrlEntropy ($11.55)
Seat 7: 1dodgerfan ($15)
Seat 8: joshuaashtondzl ($29.35)
Seat 9: ref72 ($31.50)
1dodgerfan posts the small blind of $0.10
joshuaashtondzl posts the big blind of $0.25
The Platypuss posts $0.25
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to joshuaashtondzl [Kd Kc]
ref72 folds
natojo99 folds
JokerStars folds
bigo3810 raises to $0.75
jrdutch folds
The Platypuss calls $0.50
ctrlEntropy folds
1dodgerfan folds
joshuaashtondzl raises to $2.75
bigo3810 calls $2
The Platypuss folds
*** FLOP *** [3s 9c Jd]
joshuaashtondzl bets $6
bigo3810 calls $6
*** TURN *** [3s 9c Jd] [Ah]

EDIT: My image at this table is 11/8.

Okay, so I'm kinda questioning my move here and wondering if I made the right play. My reads on said player are hes relatively TAG. Him raising immediately threw a flag for PP or AK\AQ. However, obviously no way I'm laying down Kings to him.

Going to flop, he has $12 behind. He has position on me so obviously I bet. I make a pot sized bet, which I like and he cold calls. Alright, so this tells me this guy has a hand already and it isn't aces (I think he would pumped more preflop). Turn comes an Ace. So, now I'm really stuck on my read.

So, now I'm in the tank. I can't put him on AK\AQ due to his call on the flop. AJ possibly? No, I can't put him on that either. Preflop he wouldn't call the $2.75 (at least, I didn't feel this player would). The hands I can put him on to really QQ,JJ since I think he'd fold TT once the flop hits.

So, now I'm in a 50/50 on whether or not I'm ahead. If I check here, hes pushing regardless of what he holds. If I push, he is probably only calling if I'm beat. So, I suppose what I'm getting at is do I just push the flop, push preflop, or can you find a fold here on the turn? I put half of his stack in on the flop, so obviously the rest is going in now no matter what card hits.

Thing that bothers me that I didn't realize about this hand the whole way down is that when I bet that flop, its obvious hes in it for the long run if he calls. If I don't bet that flop, he either puts me all in, or checks and possibly catchs up. I can't find a reason here ever to check that flop so I've ruled that out. I can't put him on gapped suited connectors, so possible straight draw is out of there so I'm not worried about giving propper odds. Do I make a weak bet of half the pot to gauge where I am at here?

*Head spinning*

I hate OOP poker.

Posting the result here since I've already made it obvious I lost the hand.

*** TURN *** [3s 9c Jd] [Ah]
joshuaashtondzl bets $6.40
bigo3810 calls $6.40, and is all in
joshuaashtondzl shows [Kd Kc]
bigo3810 shows [Jh Js]
*** RIVER *** [3s 9c Jd Ah] [3c]
joshuaashtondzl: nice hand
joshuaashtondzl shows two pair, Kings and Threes
bigo3810 shows a full house, Jacks full of Threes
bigo3810 wins the pot ($29.60) with a full house, Jacks full of Threes
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $31.15 | Rake $1.55
Board: [3s 9c Jd Ah 3c]
Seat 1: natojo99 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: JokerStars didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: bigo3810 showed [Jh Js] and won ($29.60) with a full house, Jacks full of Threes
Seat 4: jrdutch didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: The Platypuss folded before the Flop
Seat 6: ctrlEntropy (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: 1dodgerfan (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 8: joshuaashtondzl (big blind) showed [Kd Kc] and lost with two pair, Kings and Threes
Seat 9: ref72 didn't bet (folded)

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Lukie

04-25-2006, 06:57 AM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jul 2005

Location: back with a vengeance

Posts: 3,307

<Lukie> kind of an awkward situation here since he only has about 60bb
<Lukie> but turn really shouldn't be a scare card much
<Lukie> since its unlikely he has Ax here, i mean if it does its quite unfortunate
<Lukie> but the pot is already about 18ish
<Lukie> and he has 6 or so behind
<Lukie> on the turn
<Lukie> I'd try to balance my bets a little bit more though, like a bit less on the flop and a bit more on the turn
<Lukie> so it doesnt go like pot, 1/3 pot
<Lukie> preflop good, nice pot sized raise
<Lukie> maybe just lead like 3/4 pot on the flop and push turn
<Lukie> would balance it better IMO

joshuadzl

04-25-2006, 04:04 PM

#3 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Nov 2005

Location: Seattle, Wa

Posts: 287

No more responses on this one?

yorib

04-25-2006, 05:25 PM

#4 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2006

Location: Oak Park, IL

Posts: 281

Villians preflop Raise then Call suggests 77+/AK, or if he tries to hide low pp then 22+. I don't think an AQ calls off 20% of his stack to an obvious QQ+/AK.
(All this factors in your read on him has "tight").
On the flop 33/99/JJ have you beat and call, QQ/AK might call, and every other hand folds. Figure about 25% of the hands he could have beat you (2/9 of the likely hands), at most 25% call (QQ/AK), the rest fold. Considering there are no drawing hands, I'd look to bet less on the flop (2/3 pot) and then check the turn unless a K fell. With an A you know you are beat to anyone who calls your bet.

Of course, in the heat of the moment, I'm sure I'd have played the hand exactly the same.

In a way, you lucked out that he wasn't bought in full.

joshuadzl

04-25-2006, 05:46 PM

#5 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Nov 2005

Location: Seattle, Wa

Posts: 287

I was extremely confident he didn't have 9s down. I was very confident in that read and if he pushed into a 3 4 9 flop I would of called instantly. I'm also confident he isn't calling me with AK after the flop missed. So, with the three hands my reads limit me to, (TT-QQ), hes probably cold calling with 2 of the three and folding the tens. I guess thats the dillema, do I always go broke when I'm 50/50 on the Queens or the Jacks. The Ace was not a scare card and I definitely used a ton of time on each street in this hand.

Vrax

04-25-2006, 10:58 PM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: May 2005

Location: Poland

Posts: 632

After that huge flop bet I'd put him AI on turn. Stacks depth plays here important role.

You will see QJ-ish crap here and various draws (even gutshots) more often than not. This is $25NL, not $200NL, their calling range is too wide for such a sophisticated reads. "I will get called only when I'm beat" uhuh yeah right

I really like Lukie's response BTW, there is no need to pound that flop so hard, half pot would be OK.

"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy

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Overpair vs unders on flop

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