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Overcalls or overbets?

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dev

04-22-2006, 08:53 PM Post subject: Overcalls or overbets?

#1 (permalink)

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Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

Button ($20.50)
SB ($18.80)
BB ($24.10)
UTG ($24.88)
UTG+1 ($14.20)
Hero ($22.45)
MP2 ($24.90)
CO ($10.70)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A

, A

. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.25, Hero calls $0.25, 3 folds, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1) 4

, 9

, A

(4 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 bets $0.25, Hero calls $0.25, SB calls $0.25, BB folds.

Turn: ($1.75) 4

(3 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets $0.25, Hero calls $0.25, SB calls $0.25.

River: ($2.50) T

(3 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets $0.25, Hero raises to $2, SB folds, UTG+1 calls $1.75.

Final Pot: $6.50

Results in white below:
UTG+1 has Tc Jc (two pair, tens and fours).
Hero has Ah Ad (full house, aces full of fours).
Outcome: Hero wins $6.50.

I am ok with folding trip aces if I can put someone on a flush by the river, so I gave up the cheap turn. The turn was awsome for me... but if everything is hitting me, most of the time it wont hit them, right? On the other hand, since the draws missed, my bet on the river looks like a busted draw trying to salvage the hand.

My only question here is, could I have made more money, or was I right in going for the overcalls?

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Lukie

04-23-2006, 01:13 PM

#2 (permalink)

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raise preflop
raise flop
raise turn

Lukie

04-23-2006, 01:17 PM

#3 (permalink)

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Quote:

My only question here is, could I have made more money, or was I right in going for the overcalls?

To put it bluntly, this hand was played terribly. In this specific hand you weren't going to make any real money, but if you consistently play your nut (but vulnerable) hands like this, you are going to be in for a world of hurt.

Halv

04-23-2006, 01:32 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

raise preflop
raise flop
raise turn

I might slowplay/smooth call the turn hoping villain is on a flushdraw that hits the river.

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Lukie

04-23-2006, 04:12 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by HalvSame

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lukie

raise preflop
raise flop
raise turn

I might slowplay/smooth call the turn hoping villain is on a flushdraw that hits the river.

I like trying to win big pots with near-nut hands, and I would expect opponents to make a mistake on the turn here especially at this level. Pot shouldn't even be this small on the turn anyway though...

dev

04-23-2006, 06:43 PM

#6 (permalink)

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There's been an ongoing debate in my head about the transparency of high pocket pairs. Renton mentioned flat calling with QQ preflop as a good way to trap opponents, and I agreed.

My problem with this hand is that I'm flat calling with aces preflop rarely, but this time I did, and the board was such that nothing but a bluff could pay me off. I have a player behind that is trying to pay me off as well. I didn't want to chase them both out with a bet. Is agro still the way here? I waited until the river to extract the most on the earlier streets.

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strawman

04-23-2006, 08:03 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dev

My problem with this hand is that I'm flat calling with aces preflop rarely, but this time I did, and the board was such that nothing but a bluff could pay me off.

It's one thing to limp in early position with Aces since you have the whole table behind you and there is a chance that someone will re-raise and than you can come over the top, however here you are the SB and there are two people in the pot - you complete and the BB checks- so now you have three players who can crack you.

The flop was bitter-sweet. Yes, you tripped your Aces and have a nice redraw, however the flop fits flush and straight draws. Since you showed no stregnth preflop this might be a good flop to bet straight into. Since you checked a raise was definately in order when it got back to you.

I was nearly stacked yesterday after flopping a set of 8s on an A 8 9 rainbow board. I raised 6x BB preflop, c/r the flop, overbet the turn and put in a half pot bet on the river. Imagine my dismay when my opponent has A3s and hit the back door flush even though I charged him heavily along the way. On a flop like yours you need to start charging your opponents a price to get to where they want to go otherwise it makes it more difficult to know if they got there and you find yourself losing more on the end.

Pelion

04-23-2006, 09:42 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dev

Wasnt that about flat calling a raise preflop? most people reraise with a very small % of hands so a reraise can be quite transparent. In your hand noone has raised yet. If a raise from MP1 automatically puts you on QQ+ then I would suggest you need to be raising more hands rather than less.

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bair

04-24-2006, 02:18 AM

#9 (permalink)

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this may be the worst hand i have ever seen, there is no way you will ever be able justify your play, so just take the advice you have been given and use it.

Lukie

04-25-2006, 04:50 AM

#10 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dev

There's been an ongoing debate in my head about the transparency of high pocket pairs. Renton mentioned flat calling with QQ preflop as a good way to trap opponents, and I agreed.

My problem with this hand is that I'm flat calling with aces preflop rarely, but this time I did, and the board was such that nothing but a bluff could pay me off. I have a player behind that is trying to pay me off as well. I didn't want to chase them both out with a bet. Is agro still the way here? I waited until the river to extract the most on the earlier streets.

What do you mean nothing but a bluff could pay you off? You mean like Ax, A9, A4, 94 (its a limped pot), set of 9's, set of 4's, flush draw, etc. aren't putting some money in this pot? I really don't get your limp preflop behind a limper either to be honest....

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