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daven
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08-03-2008, 11:04 AM
Post subject: open limping
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,807
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is there a place for it?
low pocket pairs from ep sometimes?
from MP? I think not
anyone?
there is too much open limping happening in my games, and i'm sick of being party to it - results orientated thinking after top full house < BB with 68s for the straight flush in a limped pot!
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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i tried this for a bit but i couldnt balance the limping ranges very well.
Also, i found the results were meh, if i was limping 22-55 in ep then you have to add a few sc's as well and sometimes AQ etc etc
Just didnt work out well for me postflop so i just decided to muck them pre and play with my ep raising range a bit more. thats 1/2 obviously, at 100nl you might get away with it, and at 50nl i dont see why not
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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I like to open limp 22-55 when the table is weak and I know no-one is going to exploit me or be able to hand read my obv set very well postflop. I don't balance it because I only ever do it when no-one is capable of exploiting me.
Pretty sure if you never open limp you are not losing much value though.
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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I won't say that I never do it, but I will say you should never do it.
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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Keilah
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Northern BC, Canada
Posts: 658
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I only open limp when I feel like being a loser, irritating everybody, and making a zillion retarded/nonstandard plays.
BTW that's actually a semi-decent way to play poker for a few dozen hands, maybe some people can make it work long-term.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Open-limping with proper balance is probably +EV compared to not. For example, consider playing 77 UTG. We'd like to limp that hand some portion of the hand since we can't stand a 3-bet, etc.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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a500lbgorilla
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JESUS TAKE THE KEYBOARD
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: This room is a good place to be
Posts: 8,379
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Open-limping with proper balance is probably +EV compared to not. For example, consider playing 77 UTG. We'd like to limp that hand some portion of the hand since we can't stand a 3-bet, etc.
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At the same time, think about AA. If you're raising 77, then your utg raising range is wider for when you spike AA there. Maybe the EV trade off between raising 77 for playing your big pairs in that spot and just limp 77 to maximize EV in a vacuum isn't worth it. Simply because AA may net a higher value.
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Smithers, use the amnesia ray.
You mean the revolver, sir?
Precisely.
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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I used to waffle between open limping them part of the time on aggressive tables when a reraise was more likely and raising them all of the time. You can get away with limping at low stakes for the most part b/c most opps suck at handreading, but as you move up decent opps put you on a set pretty quickly when you hit, so getting paid off can be problematic. I think that often counterbalances any implied odds advantage you give yourself by open limping. These days I think about the HUD stats I want to present and pretty much open raise them 100%.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
Quote:
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Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Open-limping with proper balance is probably +EV compared to not. For example, consider playing 77 UTG. We'd like to limp that hand some portion of the hand since we can't stand a 3-bet, etc.
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At the same time, think about AA. If you're raising 77, then your utg raising range is wider for when you spike AA there. Maybe the EV trade off between raising 77 for playing your big pairs in that spot and just limp 77 to maximize EV in a vacuum isn't worth it. Simply because AA may net a higher value. |
With proper balance, this won't be an issue.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Warpe
I used to waffle between open limping them part of the time on aggressive tables when a reraise was more likely and raising them all of the time. You can get away with limping at low stakes for the most part b/c most opps suck at handreading, but as you move up decent opps put you on a set pretty quickly when you hit, so getting paid off can be problematic. I think that often counterbalances any implied odds advantage you give yourself by open limping. These days I think about the HUD stats I want to present and pretty much open raise them 100%.
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Again, with proper balance you won't be easy to read. If you only open limp 22-66, and only play your hand aggressively when you hit a set, then of course you'll be easy to read and your implied odds will be shot. The idea is to play better than that.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla
I won't say that I never do it, but I will say you should never do it.
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sklansky said only macho types don't open limp
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elipsesjeff
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Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
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My UTG raises don't get 3bet nearly as much as I'd like them to.
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spoonitnow
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: IRC Chat Room
Posts: 5,406
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
My UTG raises don't get 3bet nearly as much as I'd like them to.
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While I see the point you're trying to make, it's completely irrelevant since even if what you say is true, open limping still has the same inherent advantage of not being 3-bet as often whenever it's inconvenient, no matter how seldom or often this is.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ripptyde
I only have 2 simple rules when I am coaching a new student.
Rule # 1: don't ask questions
Rule # 2: don't ask questions
I have no interest in discussing strategy with a protege'. Your job is to remain quiet and listen. I have a very systematic approach that I will share with the right candidate and I promise that I will turn you into a force of nature and show you elements of the game of poker that you never knew existed.
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