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Zangief
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07-12-2005, 03:53 PM
Post subject: One-card straight versus smart LAG
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 370
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Please comment on my play in this hand.
I'm dealt 8 8 under the gun, so I call.
The action is folded around to the smart LAG who is in the cutoff. He raises to 5 x BB.
My stack is 100 x BB and his is about 500 x BB, so I call for the implied odds on making a set.
The pot is about 10 x BB.
The flop comes 7 9 10 rainbow.
I think I probably have the best hand now, so I lead out with a bet of 3/4 of the pot (8 x BB). He calls.
The turn brings a J, no flush draw.
I now have the 3rd nuts: KQ and Q8 are the only hands I don't beat. KQ is unlikely because he would have been drawing to an inside straight. Q8 is unlikely because I have 2 of the 4 possible 8s.
I again bet 3/4 of the pot (20 x BB), hoping he has caught 2 pair or a set or that he wants to represent my hand and will raise me.
He min-raises me. The pot is now 86 x BB.
I figure I still have the best hand and reraise all-in for 67 x BB.
Results to follow.
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ensign_lee
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: The University of TEXAS at Austin
Posts: 2,237
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I think he has QQ, and just picked up an OESD to go with his overpair. You should have reraised at the turn.
Otherwise, he may have hit a set himself, and now doesn't want to let go of it, thinking that there's little chance you have that 8. More likely, he thinks, you have an overpair or QQ.
In either situation, you're winning here. Pushing on the turn is a good move.
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Yep, your push is correct. KQ is still a possibility, since he would have 2 overs to compliment his straight draw. That's 9 outs as he sees it or a 20% shot.
I've seen worse calls, but would it be that bad? There are implied odds postflop if he believes you will give him your stack with a lower straight. I say there's a chance for KQ, but more likely he has a high pocket or a set that pays you here.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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Zangief
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 370
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I was hoping for a little more discussion, but it looks like this is all I'm going to get.
Results:
Opponent called. River was a blank. He showed KQ and smacked me in the face with his nuts.
After thinking about the hand, his call wasn't too bad. He called 8 x BB to take my remaining 87 x BB stack + 18 x BB in the pot. That makes his gutshot straight draw profitable. And if he hit a K or a Q, he would have won those hands, too ... although he probably wouldn't have gotten much more money from me.
Does this insight change whether my play was likely correct or not?
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dsaxton
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 2,667
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I don't think raising all-in makes much sense. There's very little chance of getting either outdrawn or counterfeited, so you don't need to protect your hand (except perhaps against a fairly unlikely set, which he probably won't fold anyways), and so the only other real purpose an all-in reraise could have would be to get called by a worse hand, and when you have the worst possible straight with a four card straight on the board, this obviously isn't going to happen. I would call, and then check-call on the river to win more from a bluff or a set, and lose less to a higher straight.
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Zangief
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 370
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dsaxton
I don't think raising all-in makes much sense. There's very little chance of getting either outdrawn or counterfeited, so you don't need to protect your hand (except perhaps against a fairly unlikely set, which he probably won't fold anyways), and so the only other real purpose an all-in reraise could have would be to get called by a worse hand, and when you have the worst possible straight with a four card straight on the board, this obviously isn't going to happen. I would call, and then check-call on the river to win more from a bluff or a set, and lose less to a higher straight.
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I guess I was concerned with him drawing with just a Q to a higher straight. I often tend to err on the side of raising/pushing.
But I think you're right: 6 outs isn't that much. Checking and calling would have been a much better option for maximizing my winnings and minimizing my losses.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,334
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Why bet into him when he's betting this flop like 90%+ of the time and you have enough of a hand here to put all of your chips in on the flop?
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Staple Gun
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Full House
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Gamblers Anonymous
Posts: 812
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I thought he had JJ before I looked at the results. However, the min reraise on the turn scares me and I dont think you should push here.
That being said I probably would have reraised about 3x his raise, thus making me pot commited, and losing my stack when he pushes.
After reading everything I think the correct play would be call, then check-call the river. Thanks for posting this hand, I come accross similar situations a lot and this will probably help.
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DoGGz
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I probably check raise this flop. That is what i was thinking before I saw the results. I thought most likely he has high cards. If he's a lagg he's going to come out firing on the flop. If you check, and then raise his bet you are showing a lot of strength. If he was a smart lagg he almost always lays it down.
Looking at the results, check raise here probably wins the pot outright on the flop.
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Zangief
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 370
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Why bet into him when he's betting this flop like 90%+ of the time and you have enough of a hand here to put all of your chips in on the flop?
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This is a good question that I'm not sure I can answer well. I usually don't check with the intention of raising unless I am up against several opponents. I really don't like giving free cards, especially to LAggs who seem to be on draws more often.
Would you check-raise all-in here because the chance of him having an overpair are low because he is a LAgg?
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