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o.25 - 0-25 ring JJ

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MortenTA

11-17-2005, 07:34 AM Post subject: o.25 - 0-25 ring JJ

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Posts: 40

In second hand at the table i get JJ.. comments?

Hand 1480841845, Started at 16-11-2005 23:31
Table 'Trenton': $0,25-$0,25 No Limit HE (Real Money)
Seat 0: banger37 ($21,10 in chips) (on the button)
Seat 1: bucha13 ($4,75 in chips)
Seat 2: asweetthng ($8,40 in chips)
Seat 3: buckman63 ($11,70 in chips)
Seat 4: RedCorolla ($24,75 in chips)
Seat 5: avis1984 ($11 in chips)
Seat 7: skrufen ($16,85 in chips)
Seat 8: st. edge ($10,75 in chips)
Seat 9: fundraiser15 ($12,80 in chips)
*** Blind Bet Round *** :
Dealt to RedCorolla: Jd
Dealt to RedCorolla: Js
bucha13 : Post Blind ($0,15)
asweetthng : Post Blind ($0,25)
*** Pre-Flop *** :
buckman63 : Call ($0,25)
RedCorolla : Bet ($0,75)
avis1984 : Call ($0,75)
skrufen : Call ($0,75)
st. edge : Fold
fundraiser15 : Fold
banger37 : Fold
bucha13 : Call ($0,60)
asweetthng : Call ($0,50)
buckman63 : Call ($0,50)
*** Flop *** : 3h 8s 5d
bucha13 : Check
asweetthng : Check
buckman63 : Check
RedCorolla : Bet ($2)
avis1984 : Fold
skrufen : Call ($2)
bucha13 : Fold
asweetthng : Fold
buckman63 : Fold
*** Turn *** : [ 3h 8s 5d ] 9h
RedCorolla : Bet ($5)
skrufen : Call ($5)
*** River *** : [ 3h 8s 5d 9h ] 10h
RedCorolla : Bet ($17)
RedCorolla : All In
skrufen : Call ($9,10)
skrufen : All In
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $44,10 | Rake: $0,50
Board: [ 3h 8s 5d 9h 10h ]
banger37 lost $0
bucha13 lost $0,75
asweetthng lost $0,75
buckman63 lost $0,75
RedCorolla bet $24,75, collected $7,90, net -$16,85 Shows [ Jd Js ] (a pair of Jacks.)
avis1984 lost $0,75
skrufen bet $16,85, collected $36,20, net $19,35 Shows [ 6h Ah ] (a flush, Ace high.)
st. edge lost $0
fundraiser15 lost $0

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lamaros

11-17-2005, 08:22 AM

#2 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 346

Weak bets.

Fnord

11-17-2005, 08:32 AM

#3 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,334

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Get more money in on early streets. That river bet really sucked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

lowBoy

11-17-2005, 09:09 AM

#4 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Feb 2005

Posts: 513

Raise more preflop. You do NOT want this many callers with JJ out of position. You've got 5 other people coming in with you here - not a good thing. At the .15/.25 NL tables, I would start using a 6xBB reraise for all of your preflop reraises - if you don't get folds down to one or two players on average, then make it 8xBB. The point of raising preflop with premium hands is to isolate, and without isolation the hand just got a whole lot harder on later streets. People fold to you too much? Start raising more often in position with worse hands.

On the flop, you've got a pot that's $4.50 with a good straight draw and 5 players, and you bet $2? Ugh. Make it at least $3.50, if not pot sized. The board isn't suited, so chances are the only hands you'll get along for the ride are a straight draw (67s likely from the prelop action, 46s not as likely but possible from loose blinds).

You got it down to one player for the turn (good), but if he had the likely straight draw, he's got the straight now. And you then bet $5 into a $8.50 pot, which is good with the flush draw on the board. He then calls, which means that you're looking to showdown for CHEAP.

The river brings a 10h, making a backdoor flush possible now (and lots of players will call your turn bet for a flush at this level, it happens all the time) and you make the donkish river bet that will only get called by a hand that beats you. Depending on my opp, I'd vary between check/fold (no reads) and a repeat bet.

Fnord

11-17-2005, 10:18 AM

#5 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,334

I have a slightly different spin on things:

Pre-flop: I really don't mind a 3x raised pot multi-way. You will win here a lot, although you've put the pot-size in a danger zone if you get caught up with an over-pair. Then again, I play in games where I expect a 2 or 3 way pot after making that raise. Raising bigger isolates the limper and isn't a bad play either, however once again we're in a difficult pot size for an over-pair. If you're not a very strong post-flop player, I think limping is really the best play if your opponents are horrible enough to stack off in unraised pots with pairs and that appears to be the case here. It makes for lots of easy decisions and with very little in the pot it's easy to get away from an over-pair if you decide to continue without a set.

Flop: I will c-bet half potish a lot with big hands to balance all the times I bet with air. It's a 6-way raised pot and your opponents suck. Screw balance, pot the mothafucker.

Turn: Your play on the flop really sets up your bet size here.

River: Your bet makes it difficult for a worse hand to call and correct for a wide range to call your earlier weak bets.

Something that I find helps in these spots is at my first real bet size decision (usually the flop, sometimes the turn) is to figure out how much money I want to put into the pot and try to get there. You never really made up your mind here if you wanted to get it all-in or showdown for less. Failure to make that decision is worse than either decision.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

BankItDrew

11-17-2005, 05:41 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Oct 2005

Location: Losing Prop Bets

Posts: 2,789

BankItDrew will become famous soon enough

What was the point of the AI on the river? Were you hoping that top pair would call? No one should be calling an AI on the river with a pair of tens. You are only going to get called if you are beat. Remember: you only had a pair of jacks after the river. So many hands could have beaten you. Next time make a value bet: 1/3 the size of the pot (in hopes he has a ten).

Bet more pre-flop too. You had 5 callers! Your Jacks are no longer any good and should be in check/fold mode here... luckily you got a rag flop.

Bet the size of the pot after the flop. The Ace Six of hearts would have folded here along with everyone else.

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MortenTA

11-17-2005, 08:16 PM

#7 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2005

Location: Copenhagen, Denmark

Posts: 40

thanx for all the feedback.. som very good points and i agree with all of you.. that AI on the river was just stupid - live and learn

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