www.flopturnriver.com

Poker Forum

Over 1,247,000 Posts!

Already Registered? Username: Password: Remember Forgot Password
Tweet

Not proud of myself

LinkBack

Thread Tools

Display Modes

r8ed

09-12-2005, 01:56 AM Post subject: Not proud of myself

#1 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 1,524

The other guy was in every hand since I was on the table (6 hands). That's my lame justification.

***** Hand History for Game 2695974570 *****
$25 NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, September 11, 21:41:52 EDT 2005
Table Table 37014 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: MilwaukePhil ( $25 )
Seat 2: janje ( $24.40 )
Seat 4: monkeebizz ( $24.80 )
Seat 6: BH51752 ( $3.60 )
Seat 7: shen266 ( $24.40 )
Seat 8: RandomPlaya ( $26.12 )
Seat 9: razrshrpi ( $25.25 )
Seat 10: monixc ( $20.25 )
Seat 5: krAzyAnyway ( $24 )
Seat 3: YoungGun36 ( $25 )
krAzyAnyway posts small blind [$0.10].
BH51752 posts big blind [$0.25].
YoungGun36 posts big blind [$0.25].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to janje [ Qs Qh ]
shen266 folds.
RandomPlaya folds.
razrshrpi folds.
monixc folds.
janje raises [$1].
YoungGun36 calls [$0.75].
monkeebizz raises [$3].
krAzyAnyway folds.
BH51752 folds.
janje raises [$5].
YoungGun36 folds.
monkeebizz calls [$3].
** Dealing Flop ** [ Kh, 5h, 4h ]
janje is all-In.
monkeebizz calls [$18.40].
** Dealing Turn ** [ Kc ]
** Dealing River ** [ 9d ]
janje shows [ Qs, Qh ] two pairs, kings and queens.
monkeebizz shows [ As, Kd ] three of a kind, kings.
monkeebizz wins $47.65 from the main pot with three of a kind, kings.

Play for FREE and practice your game at...

Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!

lowBoy

09-12-2005, 02:51 AM

#2 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Feb 2005

Posts: 513

Did he *raise* every hand he was in as well?

r8ed

09-12-2005, 03:15 AM

#3 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 1,524

I just looked back again. That is the worst play ever. I'm a major fish.

09-12-2005, 02:05 PM

#4 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 1,855

Glub glub, baby, glub glub.

PokerPatNEU

09-12-2005, 02:07 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 797

This play isn't THAT bad. You have 11 clean outs unless he holds the Ah or KK. The fold equity you gain from the board flushing if he doesnt hold a big heart is probably pretty significant. He could be holding another pocket pair 99-JJ maybe, AQs, AJs...He's in position on you so his range is a little bigger than AA/KK/AK i think unless he's super tight.

If you put out a decent continuation (1/2 pot or so) and he pushes, do you call? You have about 15$ left at that point and there is 30$ in the pot. Your flush outs alone give you the odds to call, so why not be the one pushing and gain a little fold equity on the flop?

What line do you think is better here? Just check/folding the flop because there is 1 overcard to your big pair heads up? That would be a little weak, especially holding the 2nd to nut flush draw.

r8ed

09-12-2005, 02:20 PM

#6 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 1,524

The flush draw, plus his previous loose hand calling did factor in, but his reraise and then an Ace and a King on the flop should have told me to ignore the former. It's a horrible fish play that I wanted to post here so people could tear me apart. Then I would be sure never to be such an ass again - at least in that situation. Where's 'rilla when you need him? I should check/fold hoping to hit trips or the flush. It may be weak but I can wait for better opportunities. Hopefully some beginners will read this and see why it's such a bad idea and save some money.

biondino

09-12-2005, 02:33 PM

#7 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars

Posts: 3,170

So effectively you have a made hand, nine clean outs x 2, and decent fold equity. It's looking less and less like a terrible hand

PokerPatNEU

09-12-2005, 02:39 PM

#8 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 797

Quote:

Originally Posted by biondino

So effectively you have a made hand, nine clean outs x 2, and decent fold equity. It's looking less and less like a terrible hand

Yeah seriously i am looking at it over and re-reading my post and I have not found a reason to change my mind yet...You say opp has been in every hand with you, does that mean he's loose and/or is just playing pots against you because he thinks he can make plays on you? Or is it just a coincidence? If it's because he's loose i think a continuation bet is in order, if it's because he can make plays on you a continuation bet is definitely in order. Once you continue out of position and get played back at, you are pot commited with clean outs and the possiblity that villain is making a move so you may even still have the best hand. I think check/folding is way way way too weak with this hand and this draw against this villain who is in every pot against you. Check/call and hope the turn brings improvement or any blank (non A or K) might be a safe line...But i don't think i'm ever check/folding this without a read of very tight (and your read is the opposite of that, unless i'm misunderstanding what you mean by he plays every pot with you).

r8ed

09-12-2005, 04:10 PM

#9 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 1,524

I just joined that table and the first 6 hands he was in. I was watching football at the time (I know), but poker tracker showed me. I was paying enough attention to notice a preflop raise higher than .25, so he hadn't raised higher than that on any of those hands. Even when I'm not paying attention, I always will go back to check who raised prelop.

Hmmm. I would think that if I bet 2/3 or check, he's going all-in. He does have TPTK that he would want to protect against the flush draw. Maybe pushing was the best option just for the fold equity. If I am in a very similar situation, you think pushing is the best option? Or do you think trying to check? Or betting 2/3 or full pot? If my check/bet is reaised, then what?

I appreciate the feedback as QQ is difficult to play on certain flops.

PokerPatNEU

09-12-2005, 04:29 PM

#10 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 797

If he was in 6 hands in a row i don't really give him credit for being tight, it would take an extraordinary lucky string of cards. Thats enough of a read right there to justify this play IMO. Let's ask ourselves this, out of all the hands villain will raise then call a re raise with pre flop, what percentage has a king? I think it's less than 50% from a player who has been involved 6 hands in a row.Thats enough information for me to say that push is a better EV play than check/fold. That doesn't mean its necessarily the most EV you can get here, but i would take that over check folding.

I also don't think checking the flop with the intention of calling a reasonable bet is a good idea as you may wind up throwing away the best hand if villain pushes and is holding anything besides AA/KK/AK, and thats only a small percentage of his range in this hand i think.

If it weren't for the flush draw i'd say continue 1/2 the pot then fold to a push. With the flush draw that will just pot commit you anyway if you think your flush outs are clean, so i like the push as it gains you that bit of fold equity.

r8ed

09-12-2005, 05:53 PM

#11 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2005

Posts: 1,524

What if they played zero hands or a couple (or you have no read) up to that point? 6 isn't a large sample rate and you cannot assume somebody is tight based on 6 hands. Does that radically change things? I know this situation will come up at some point and I'll try to think back on the advice give here. I know it's a judgement call and I should be able to derive it from the discussion above, but I'm still not sure. I'm leaning on push based on the below:

You guys have given great analysis. Anyone wihout a K (or Ax hearts) would fold to that bet. Some people with Kx (no heart) may fold to that bet (few but some). Some people with Axo where the A is suited will call. By pushing, they may think you have AA or KK and want to protect against a flush or that you have the flush. If you take all that into consideration, it may make sense to push against most opponents unless you are very certain you can check or raise and get proper information with their reaction. I like putting them on the spot. You lose less than 65% of the time if they call and that's only if they call. I don't know if somebody can do the exact math, but it's not a bad play after eyeballing the percentages since alternatively I may end up pot committed and all-in or I drop 3/4 of my stack without showing down.

Latest Poker News
KoRnholio	05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ... more at Poker Blogs »

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is Off Trackbacks are On Pingbacks are On Refbacks are On Forum Rules

All times are GMT. The time now is 08:11 PM.

Play Texas Holdem Online, Online Texas Holdem Strategy, & Poker Forum

This is not a gambling website.

Poker Forum

Over 1,247,000 Posts!

Poker Forum

Full Ring NL Hold'em

Not proud of myself

Play for FREE and practice your game at...