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Not agressive enough?

  
 
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shotz69
Old 09-15-2004, 07:53 PM     Post subject: Not agressive enough? #1 (permalink)  

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shotz69
Should I of bet the turn or river or was I right to check? I will wait awhile before I post the outcome because it is pretty weird what this guy actually had.

*********** # 17 **************
PokerStars Game #689526003: Tournament #2663055, Hold'em No Limit - Level II
(15/30) - 2004/09/13 - 21:05:18 (ET)
Table '2663055 1' Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Maverick36 (1678 in chips)
Seat 2: Ghask4 (1722 in chips)
Seat 3: shotz69 (1555 in chips)
Seat 4: Templar (905 in chips)
Seat 5: Corp Por (1220 in chips)
Seat 6: Busster8 (1095 in chips)
Seat 7: King Doug (1105 in chips)
Seat 8: FishFingers (1425 in chips)
Seat 9: PISTONS087 (2795 in chips)
PISTONS087: posts small blind 15
Maverick36: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to shotz69 [9d 9h]
Ghask4: folds
shotz69: raises 90 to 120
Templar: calls 120
Corp Por: raises 90 to 210
Busster8: folds
King Doug: folds
FishFingers: folds
PISTONS087: folds
Maverick36: folds
shotz69: calls 90
Templar: calls 90
*** FLOP *** [7c 9c Qh]
shotz69: checks
Templar: checks
Corp Por: bets 120
shotz69: raises 390 to 510
Templar: folds
Corp Por: calls 390
*** TURN *** [7c 9c Qh] [Kc]
shotz69: checks
Corp Por: checks
*** RIVER *** [7c 9c Qh Kc] [Qd]
shotz69: checks
Corp Por: checks
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Humphrind
Old 09-15-2004, 08:08 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Interesting hand.

I find it very odd that you checked the turn. What would you have done if he had gone all-in? (as I would expect)

On the river, it looks like you are either stepping into a slow play, or a bluff attempt by him that went terribly wrong.

Let me figure this out by process of elimination.

There are only a few hands that will beat you. He doesn't have any one of those hands or he wouldn't have checked on the river.

My best guess, AQ (not likely) JJ or TT.
I don't know what they have to say
It makes no difference anyway.
Whatever it is...
I'm against it.
 
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fishstick
Old 09-15-2004, 08:13 PM #3 (permalink)  
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i would not have checked the flop with two clubs showing - i would've bet the pot. since you didn't, i would have pushed all-in as my reraise to really discourage the draw. at this point, you're only beat by QQ.

his small bet on the flop is odd (120 to a ~700 pot), but his not reraising you says draw (or slowplayed QQ).

the club on the turn is disturbing - it's a tough choice between firing off a bet and checking. with the check, you're giving him a free chance at the backdoor flush if he's only got one club. i'm also thinking not KQ or he would have bet with his top two pair.

based on the turn, why aren't you betting the river? i wouldn't have put him on two pair earlier, so i think him having a bigger boat is unlikely.



he didn't bet the river so let's assume he doesn't have a boat or a queen. maybe he hit his flush, but fears the boat.
i hate what i have become to escape what i hated being...
 
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ttanaka
Old 09-15-2004, 08:20 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 I'd put him on AK, TT, or JJ, all-in on the flop raise, or feeler bet on the turn and definitely bet the river.
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shotz69
Old 09-15-2004, 08:42 PM #5 (permalink)  

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shotz69
I was torn between throwing all in and checking on both the turn and the river, if he would of threw all in I definatly would of called but that 3rd club scared me a bit. I have no idea why I didnt bet the river, looking back at it now I definatly should of. Here is what he had, a complete missed flop for him not even a possible flush draw, no idea what he was thinking calling my reraise after the flop.

*** SHOW DOWN ***
shotz69: shows [9d 9h] (a full house, Nines full of Queens)
Corp Por: shows [Ad Kh] (two pair, Kings and Queens)
shotz69 collected 1695 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1695 | Rake 0
Board [7c 9c Qh Kc Qd]
Seat 1: Maverick36 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Ghask4 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: shotz69 showed [9d 9h] and won (1695) with a full house, Nines full of
Queens
Seat 4: Templar folded on the Flop
Seat 5: Corp Por showed [Ad Kh] and lost with two pair, Kings and Queens
Seat 6: Busster8 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: King Doug folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: FishFingers (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: PISTONS087 (small blind) folded before Flop
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fishstick
Old 09-15-2004, 08:46 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shotz69
I was torn between throwing all in and checking on both the turn and the river, if he would of threw all in I definatly would of called but that 3rd club scared me a bit. I have no idea why I didnt bet the river, looking back at it now I definatly should of. Here is what he had, a complete missed flop for him not even a possible flush draw, no idea what he was thinking calling my reraise after the flop.

*** SHOW DOWN ***
shotz69: shows [9d 9h] (a full house, Nines full of Queens)
Corp Por: shows [Ad Kh] (two pair, Kings and Queens)
shotz69 collected 1695 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1695 | Rake 0
Board [7c 9c Qh Kc Qd]
Seat 1: Maverick36 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Ghask4 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: shotz69 showed [9d 9h] and won (1695) with a full house, Nines full of
Queens
Seat 4: Templar folded on the Flop
Seat 5: Corp Por showed [Ad Kh] and lost with two pair, Kings and Queens
Seat 6: Busster8 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: King Doug folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: FishFingers (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: PISTONS087 (small blind) folded before Flop
and why the check on the flop? if he hadn't bet (and he had the flush draw), you would have given him a free card to complete his flush.
i hate what i have become to escape what i hated being...
 
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Fnord
Old 09-15-2004, 08:46 PM #7 (permalink)  
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It isn't easy to let go of Big Slick after it whiffs. It's still one of my bad little habits...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
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Krapp
Old 09-15-2004, 08:48 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Well i would guess he has JJ, TT, or AA. With QQ, I would re-raise all-in on the flop or bet on the turn/river. KK would bet on turn or river at least.

For you, I think you need to bet the turn and the river. If hes calling you on the flop, hes probably very willing to throw more chips in on turn/river. If the guy did have have a set of Queens or Kings or Flush on the turn, I would bust-out and be looking at another SnG to play-in.
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shotz69
Old 09-15-2004, 09:05 PM #9 (permalink)  

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shotz69
I originally checked the flop, because I figured if I made a big bet the other 2 would fold, but if I checked one would bet and than I would reraise. I guess taking that chance with a flush draw on board is a bit risky though.
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Krapp
Old 09-15-2004, 09:59 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shotz69
I originally checked the flop, because I figured if I made a big bet the other 2 would fold, but if I checked one would bet and than I would reraise. I guess taking that chance with a flush draw on board is a bit risky though.
I think your fine checking the flop since the aggressor on the preflop is assumed to bet the flop.
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allLiving
Old 09-15-2004, 11:02 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Bet 500-700 on the turn, and bet atleast 700 on the river, if not go all-in EASILY.

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Flatbush
Old 09-16-2004, 05:25 PM #12 (permalink)  

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Flatbush
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
It isn't easy to let go of Big Slick after it whiffs. It's still one of my bad little habits...
Yep, same here.
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