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| Deuce Blue |
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Here is a hand from last nights 5NL game. No real reads on anyone and after all we are talking 5NL which means everyone is an idiot.  Noobs, how would you have played this hand as far as extracting value, etc. And what would have done at the end Vets, more of a line check on extracting value, etc. Lets get some opinions running and then I will post the hand results. Hand #1443012210000040: Rome 12210 Seat 1: Hero (5.67 in chips) Seat 2: valleyhi (1.08 in chips) Seat 3: jwidener222 (1.96 in chips) Seat 4: hotch203 (3.28 in chips) Seat 5: DonkHolliday (5.14 in chips) Seat 6: Bad Wolf (1.14 in chips) Seat 8: conradcards (0.76 in chips) Seat 9: graymer (11.37 in chips) Seat 10: Villian (13.85 in chips) Bad Wolf: posts small blind $0.02 conradcards: posts big blind $0.04 Dealt to Hero [ 5h 5s ] graymer: villian : raises to $0.08 Hero: calls valleyhi: folds jwidener222: calls hotch203: calls DonkHolliday: folds Bad Wolf: folds conradcards: folds @@@ F_L_O_P @@@ [ 5c Qd 2h ] villian: bets $0.04 Deuce Blue: raises to $0.08 jwidener222: calls hotch203: folds villian: raises to $0.12 Hero: calls jwidener222: calls *** TURN *** [ Qs ] villian: bets $0.74 Hero: calls jwidener222: folds *** RIVER *** [ Qc ] villian: bets $2.22 Deuce Blue: ???? |
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You are an FTR station-pwn'ing badass motherf**ker. You have no pansyass, girly-girl, crybaby fears. Pwn the f**king stations like you know you ought to. And win some damn money, dammit.
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| WillburForce |
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i don't like your mini-raise on the flop. unless you've done this deliberatly to get re-raised ? - and I would re-raise again when he does - hes obviously got a hand he likes, A-Q -pocket pair (?) - I'd like to get it all-in on flop if poss. and again on the turn - wheres your re-raise ???- if he's betting $.74 he's coming all the way - and if he isn't its a nice pot as is. as played - i'm not sure on river - at these stakes they can easily have A-K here.....i'd have played the whole hand differently. i play 6 max so maybe I just play hands harder and faster? |
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Normski
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| Deuce Blue |
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I really figured I was going all the way with this hand regardless. The call on the flop was basically because I still feared the Q-Q a tad. On the turn when the Q came I almost knew he had a Q so I knew he wasn't laying this down. I should have just shoved there but I really thought I was gonna be good no matter what so I took a chance and gave him a cheap river. Then when the river Q came my hand suddenly didn't look so hot, but I was left confused as to what he had but i figured I was in trouble... But was I in trouble??? All and all I would probably have played everything different except pre, but no matter at this point I guess... More opinions ( keeping in mind I know I could have played this better and put myself in a bad spot )
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You are an FTR station-pwn'ing badass motherf**ker. You have no pansyass, girly-girl, crybaby fears. Pwn the f**king stations like you know you ought to. And win some damn money, dammit.
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| spoonitnow |
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| Erpel |
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Well, I'm a noob, so I'm qualified to comment  Pre-flop - 100% agree with call, but not much information available - you're paying for the chance of a set. Due to his pseudo-isolate move I consider his range most likely a 99+ or any two broadways. Suited connectors and lower pocket pairs I'd think he'd limp if he played them. I don't want to top-limit his range - I could see AA or KK played this way by someone worried if he'll get any money out of it (at this level). Post-flop - he's min betting $0.04 into a four-way $0.38 (minus rake) pot. For the purpose of my action I'd think of it as him having checked - except I consider his play indicative that he'll call any raise that doesn't cause his alarm bells to go off too badly - he wants to play his hand and may even be scared of pushing people away so he won't get paid for it. I think his range is unchanged here - bets are too small to mean anything. Even AA could be played this way if he's worried about scaring people off. I'd want to put in a healthy $0.3-$0.4. Calling is the equivalent of attempting a check-raise - a min-raise to some people at this level still looks a raise and they might not do the re-raise they otherwise would, but with people calling to get in on the flop and a four-way pot I wouldn't expect much aggression from them and would just go for the mentioned bet. As played, when he re-raises to $0.12 he's obviously fond of his hand and thinks that he underbet it the first time and isn't getting paid off. At this point I would call. If you raise him at this point he'll be counting the number of raises rather than the amounts being bet and a raise from you would make him call and cautious later in the hand. Stacks will be less likely if you re-raise him at this point unless he draws to a full house or quads on the river - which beats you. While I agree an all-in on the flop would be nice, I consider it unlikely once it has developed to this point. As played, on the turn the pot is three-way at $0.74, he's happy with the turn and worried about being paid off on his good hand and does a pot-sized bet OOP. His range now has any hand with a J (orT) removed if it doesn't also have a Q - rest is still possible: AQ, AK, KQ, QJ(s?), QT(s?) 99+. Ok, so I'm not confident about this bet if holding 99, TT or JJ, nor with the idea of him playing QJ (s or no) or QT (s or no) pre-flop the way he did. At this point you're ahead of everything except QQ. I'd reraise him at this point - probably $2.5-$3 raise. It'll make him pause and if you take it down it's not the end of the world. If he continues to be happy with his hand in the face of that raise he has to consider that you're willing to play for stacks. He'd fold the lower pairs and AK, but hold onto AQ, KQ and probably re-raise you all in with any of those. If he'd played AA, KK, QJ, QT this way he'd probably call them. On the river - many hands with a Q in them are firmly in his range (so his quad beats your house), as are AA and KK (so his house beats yours) - the only hand in his range that you beat is AK, and his turn-bet doesn't really chime with AK to me. |
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| Deuce Blue |
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That being said spoon, do you think it was ok just flat calling on the turn since i was basically going all the way anyway. I really wanted to double up and figured I was shoving on river regardless (until the Q came ). Looking back I'm sure I should have shoved earlier but just didn't want $1.20 pot when I could double up. And whats your play on the river??? How did you miss that week ass play I beat you with on gameknot??
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You are an FTR station-pwn'ing badass motherf**ker. You have no pansyass, girly-girl, crybaby fears. Pwn the f**king stations like you know you ought to. And win some damn money, dammit.
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| Deuce Blue |
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[quote="Erpel"]Well, I'm a noob, so I'm qualified to comment Pre-flop - 100% agree with call, but not much information available - you're paying for the chance of a set. Due to his pseudo-isolate move I consider his range most likely a 99+ or any two broadways. Suited connectors and lower pocket pairs I'd think he'd limp if he played them. I don't want to top-limit his range - I could see AA or KK played this way by someone worried if he'll get any money out of it (at this level). As played, when he re-raises to $0.12 he's obviously fond of his hand and thinks that he underbet it the first time and isn't getting paid off. At this point I would call. If you raise him at this point he'll be counting the number of raises rather than the amounts being bet and a raise from you would make him call and cautious later in the hand. Stacks will be less likely if you re-raise him at this point unless he draws to a full house or quads on the river - which beats you. While I agree an all-in on the flop would be nice, I consider it unlikely once it has developed to this point. As played, on the turn the pot is three-way at $0.74, he's happy with the turn and worried about being paid off on his good hand and does a pot-sized bet OOP. His range now has any hand with a J (orT) removed if it doesn't also have a Q - rest is still possible: AQ, AK, KQ, QJ(s?), QT(s?) 99+. Ok, so I'm not confident about this bet if holding 99, TT or JJ, nor with the idea of him playing QJ (s or no) or QT (s or no) pre-flop the way he did. At this point you're ahead of everything except QQ. SPOT ON with how I was thinking. Wrong or right we are on the same page here. |
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You are an FTR station-pwn'ing badass motherf**ker. You have no pansyass, girly-girl, crybaby fears. Pwn the f**king stations like you know you ought to. And win some damn money, dammit.
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| Deuce Blue |
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| Damn quote thing, I thought i had that figured out!!! | ||||
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You are an FTR station-pwn'ing badass motherf**ker. You have no pansyass, girly-girl, crybaby fears. Pwn the f**king stations like you know you ought to. And win some damn money, dammit.
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| GatorJH |
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OK, let me take s shot at this and I would love to hear some feedback on this train of thought as I am really focused right now on pot odds post flop. When he raises you on the flop you have to know that he likes his hand. After his raise the pot is at $0.58 and you have $5.43 behind. The object now should be to a) limit the field to just one player, thus reducing the potential for a suckout and b) build the pot in such a way that he is compelled to call, even with top pair or two pair. I think a re-raise to $0.75 sounds about right here. Now lets assume that villian calls and the other player folds. That puts the pot at $1.88 and you now have $4.84 behind. The turn brings a Q, so if he is playing a hand like AQ or KQ you have just hit pay dirt. In your hand villian overbet the pot here (it was at $0.66 and he bet $0.74) so lets assume that he would do the same if the pot was at $1.88. Lets say that he would lead out with a bet of $1.95. If you call that bet you would have $2.89 left and the pot would now be at $5.78. However, if you pushed over his bet he would need to call $2.89 to win $8.67. I don't see him folding trips getting 3 to 1, however if he does have trips he is playing to 7 outs and would need to be getting about 5.5 to 1 to make a correct call. You have now gotten all of your chips in the middle with "presumably" the best hand and would have a great suckout story to tell. |
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Poker is easy, it's winning at poker that's hard.
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| XTR1000 |
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raise more on flop, ur plan is to commit as soon as possible. There arent really any turncards our hands has to fear, but an overcard turn may well slow villian down. As played, raise to .26 - .30, depending on size 4bet if he rr´es. In these spots its crucial to max value, not to max people in the pot. Vs his likely QQ+, AQ, KQ u should be AI on turn. |
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| Erpel |
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1. I read the initial .04 bet to make Villain more likely to call any bet, giving me the ability to bet a bit higher without him folding out. And with a set I reckon I'm ahead so anything more I make him call is more money to me. 2. There are still 2 people to act in the hand, and since I do want to isolate I'd rather price them out than risk them joining in - hence a slightly bigger bet, similar to how I can add a BB to my standard pre-flop raise per limper in the hand. 3. With the .04 bet before me in the hand the pot size is .42 rather than .38 which it would be if he hadn't acted, which I guess should be reflected in the 2/3 to 3/4 pot sized bet. Thinking 2/3 to 3/4 pot size bet my initial raise size was .25 to .3 - Is it correct to take these things into consideration when deciding on the size of the raise? Are any of the above 3 considerations outright wrong to include? |
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| daven |
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Why not to slowplay at microstakes... why the flop min-raise? to induce a push? <150bb deep (and/or below 25nl), never get scared when you flop middle set on a rainbow board. 4-betting makes a sane villain fold so you've made life difficult for yourself there. Turn, awesome, this is the best card possible - do you see why? you're way ahead now - only one realistic (Q2 and Q5 are not part of villain's range) hand beats you and loads of others won't be folding. Re-raise to $2 or something. Call a push. River as played. Yuck. I probably fold. hope that helps! |
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| dev |
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Bet close to the pot, raise close to the pot, and for the love of god use a hand converter. River is a fold, we don't beat anything but a bluff, though with how weakly this is played the V could be attacking weakness here. |
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Check out my self-deprecation here!
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| bjsaust |
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To paraphrase ISF from his 5 rules for beating micro stakes poker blog: "Bet, bet, raise, bet, bet, raise, raise, bet...". Min-raise on flop is just silly. Flat call on turn with a FH is beyond justification. |
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Just playing to improve.
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| meeloche |
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i didn't bother to read any of the responses but heres how it should go: Hero shoves and gets a bunch of callers. /end thread oh and wins the pot ldo |
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| Seabass |
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| Deuce Blue |
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Just as a wrap up... I called on the river as any pocker pair over a 5 beat me, in a higher stake I would have just folded but for 2 bucks I had to see. Villian turned over a Q-8. As badly as I played it I didn't get stacked. My own bad play saved me about $1.50. I was doomed from the start.... |
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You are an FTR station-pwn'ing badass motherf**ker. You have no pansyass, girly-girl, crybaby fears. Pwn the f**king stations like you know you ought to. And win some damn money, dammit.
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| dev |
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Seabass is right, and all of this is pretty bad, too. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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Check out my self-deprecation here!
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| GatorJH |
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Poker is easy, it's winning at poker that's hard.
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| dev |
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My post might have been a little harsh there, but to be honest, the replies that have stuck with me the most were the ones that hurt. Baby, why you make me hit you? |
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Check out my self-deprecation here!
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| Deuce Blue |
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Anyway, I know I should have played this much better. Truth was I knew he had a Queen and I knew when the Q hit on the turn I had his ass. I just should have shoved there ( or even earlier ) . Giving him the cheap river left myself open for him to pair his other card and hit a bigger boat so I deserved what I got. But when the Q hit on the river I was like shit, now what? I really didn't figure he was sitting on a pocket pair, but I just couldn't belive he had the case Q either. Very strange hand. If I would have shoved after the flop I could have taken it I think, but then again it is $5nl so he may have called an AI with top pair. Thanks everyone for the scolding.
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You are an FTR station-pwn'ing badass motherf**ker. You have no pansyass, girly-girl, crybaby fears. Pwn the f**king stations like you know you ought to. And win some damn money, dammit.
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| martindcx1e |
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Quote:
EDIT: i guess you already know that now though 
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Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
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| Deuce Blue |
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Quote:
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You are an FTR station-pwn'ing badass motherf**ker. You have no pansyass, girly-girl, crybaby fears. Pwn the f**king stations like you know you ought to. And win some damn money, dammit.
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| Erpel |
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Well, since you don't want sugar coating.... Read and re-read the feedback from Seabass and dev. I think the main thing to take away from this thread and discussion is that you need to work on your mentality and how you are thinking about poker. I'm in that process myself. As tends to show up in an awful lot of posts here is that you need to understand not just what the right answer is in a given situation but why - you need to understand why allowing your mind to follow the paths you're being slammed for here is not helpful to your game. That will help you. |
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| Deuce Blue |
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So call me what you will but I COUNDN"T USE THE HAND CONVERTOR you spoiled bastard playing on your SUPPORTED SITE. FU!!! J/K |
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You are an FTR station-pwn'ing badass motherf**ker. You have no pansyass, girly-girl, crybaby fears. Pwn the f**king stations like you know you ought to. And win some damn money, dammit.
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| dev |
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| Try bodog, the play was really weak there last I heard. | ||||
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Check out my self-deprecation here!
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| Unibomber14 |
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How To Play Microstakes: 1)Find FTR 2)Read articles, and posts at FTR 3)Play poker using knowledge gained 4)Make monies Read http://www.flopturnriver.com/Dont-Be-A-Poker-Pansy.html |
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"$80 million Submarine mansion. Think about it."
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| KoRnholio |
05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
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| According to an email sent out by Mark Bryan, a gaming analyst at Merrill Lynch, the Australian government plans to legalize online poker sometime in the next six to 12 months. This move will coincide ... | |
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