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View Poll Results: What do you do?
Call 6 50.00%
Fold 5 41.67%
Push 1 8.33%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

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NL .25BB ring: Call'em, Fold'em, or Push?

  
 
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Silly String
Old 07-20-2005, 07:15 PM     Post subject: NL .25BB ring: Call'em, Fold'em, or Push? #1 (permalink)  
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Unfortunately no read on villain, and semi-solid player leans toward TAG. I already see that I didn't bet quite enough to force out the draws, but that isn't my real question.
What should I have done on the river? Call, Fold, Push? And what did the villian have?

I'll update with results after much discussion

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

UTG+1 ($0.50)
MP1 ($43.80)
MP2 ($8.70)
CO =#A500AF(Villain)/ ($16.35)
Silly String ($18.15)
SB ($8.45)
BB =#A500AF(Semi-solid player)/ ($2.55)
UTG ($31.05)

Preflop: Silly String is Button with 3, 3.
5 folds, CO =#A500AF(Villain)/ calls $0.25, Silly String calls $0.25, SB completes, BB =#A500AF(Semi-solid player)/ checks.

Flop: ($1) 5, 8, 3 (3 players)
SB checks, Semi-solid player checks, Villain checks, Silly String bets $0.5, SB calls $0.50, Semi-solid player calls $0.50, Villain calls $0.50.

Turn: ($3) 2 (3 players)
SB checks, Semi-solid player checks, Villain checks, Silly String bets $2, SB folds, Semi-solid player calls $1.80 (All-In), Villain raises to $4, Silly String calls $2.

River: ($12.80) A (2 players, 1 all-in)
Villain bets $10
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EricE
Old 07-20-2005, 07:26 PM #2 (permalink)  
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I call. The only thing to be afraid of is a higher set and that you have to pay off.

errp...missed the straight. I fold.
Stakes: Playing $0.10/$0.25 NL
 
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D3scride
Old 07-20-2005, 07:29 PM #3 (permalink)  

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Bet the flop
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andr3w321
Old 07-21-2005, 12:15 AM #4 (permalink)  
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This is a tough one. Why not re-raise the turn though? I am much more comfortable putting my $ in then, than on the river, plus you gain a lot of information about his hand. As its played its a tough call, its possible he may have 22, but my guess is this is one of those 1/1000 times when you get oversetted. A4s is also possible. I'm gritting my teeth and calling this one, though I don't think there's anything wrong with a fold here.
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lowBoy
Old 07-21-2005, 03:41 AM #5 (permalink)  
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You know you messed up the flop with a weak bet, so I won't say anything about that. Do you have an idea of how much you should have raised it though?

As far as what the villain had, I'm guessing the straight or two pair made on the river. I'd call, as that bet doesn't smell like a made hand.
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Silly String
Old 07-21-2005, 01:29 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andr3w321
Why not re-raise the turn though? I am much more comfortable putting my $ in then, than on the river, plus you gain a lot of information about his hand.
Great advice Drew. I see that now, but I was still trying to figure out what hand would re-raise me to $4. I thought A4s limping? You're dead on though, I would gain much more information by re-raising.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lowBoy
Do you have an idea of how much you should have raised it though?
I have an idea, but I'm not real comfortable re-raising another $5, making it $7 total in to what could be a limped A4s who made his straight? First is $5 about right for another re-raise? Second, I guess the money was going in anyway if the hand continued(see villian river bet). I sure didn't like that river A though.

**EDIT** I just realized you are talking about increasing my flop bet, right? I should have bet the pot on the flop = $1. **EDIT**

I pondered this decision for the full time limit. Should the decision be easier? At least I learned about my villian and I have a read on him now.
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a500lbgorilla
Old 07-21-2005, 02:44 PM #7 (permalink)  
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I'm AI the first chance my opponents give me.

I bet .75~1 leaning closer to a dollar depending on how easily the table calls bigger bets. on the turn when he minraises acting like he made his straight, I put him AI or raise so much that i commit myself.

You have to approach hands like this so that you're never facing a touch bet against a tough board. If you're the one driving the betting, you leave all the decisions to your opponents. And when you leave all decisions to 25nl ops, it's +EV.

-'rilla
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Greedo017
Old 07-21-2005, 10:16 PM #8 (permalink)  
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 flop isn't a big deal, gotta reraise the turn.
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TalentedTom
Old 07-21-2005, 11:27 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Push harder on flop. Going from 0.5 raise to 2 raise is very unusual, pot sized bet on flop is the best idea i think, or if this is an aggresive table with people in late position stealing a lot check raise overbet is the best way
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BobbySalami
Old 07-21-2005, 11:28 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Have to agree exactly with 'rilla here....Push harder on flop...punch it some more on the turn, then when the river came your committed and you can chalk it up to a bad beat if it was indeed.

Out of the BB, him having a 4 is very plausible....but Im hopefully getting all my money in before that river falls and I have to make a tough choice.
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Silly String
Old 07-22-2005, 01:26 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Thanks for all the info. It looks like a dead tie between calls and folds. I took the full time allowance and almost called it, but alas I wussed out and folded. With the board showing 4 to a straight vs. limper & BB, the big bet on the end folded me out. He got the best of me there, but I got him back later for $13 and then some.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lowBoy
As far as what the villain had, I'm guessing the straight or two pair made on the river. I'd call, as that bet doesn't smell like a made hand.
lowBoy was right!! The Villain caught 2 pair on the river Aces & eights. Semi-solid player had 2 pair eights & fives, but was all in on the turn.

BTW, I had a nice down run of cards yesterday. I'll definetly have more hand histories to come. Thanks again for the suggestions.
Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
 
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EricE
Old 07-22-2005, 05:11 PM #12 (permalink)  
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I used to agonize over situations when I folded the best hand (villian has to showdown to another player). Then I learned that folding the best hand is nowhere near as bad a one might think. The saying goes, if you never fold the best hand then you are not folding enough. You don't need to be anywhere near 100% correct to be a good player or make money or whatever. You obviously don't want to fold the best hand often but every once in a while is fine. This idea has helped my game.
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Silly String
Old 07-22-2005, 05:22 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Thanks . . . more good advice.
Feel free to look at my other screw ups and help me out there too. One up already, more to come.
Playing live . . . thanks alot Bin Laden.
 
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Lukie
Old 07-25-2005, 01:25 AM #14 (permalink)  
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 Bet harder on the flop and reraise the turn. Leave the difficult decisions for your opponent.

As it was played, I think you made a good fold on the river.

- Lukie
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