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Nasty Hand...

  
 
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nUFamn
Old 08-30-2007, 05:07 PM     Post subject: Nasty Hand... #1 (permalink)  
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This was a really nasty hand I played recently. I felt a though I had a great read on the guy.... two hands previously, he stacked me... he had AA and me QQ. So then this hand came around literally two hands later, and I felt 99% sure he was on AK or QQ or something and was just being ultra aggro. I was wrong

Anyways, berate me please. I'm obviously learning the huge differences between ring games and tourneys...

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP3 ($3.10)
Hero ($10)
Button ($10.95)
SB ($5.45)
BB ($11.75)
UTG ($10.30)
UTG+1 ($5)
MP1 ($4)
MP2 ($7.15)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K, K.
UTG raises to $0.6, 3 folds, Hero raises to $1.1, 3 folds, UTG raises to $5.6, Hero raises to $10, UTG raises to $15.9 (All-In), Hero calls $1.10 (All-In).

Flop: ($22.35) 6, 5, T (3 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: ($22.35) J (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($22.35) 9 (3 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $22.35
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bode
Old 08-30-2007, 05:17 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 DONT MIN-RAISE!!!!! raise to $2 and push over his 4-bet. If he had AA again theres nothing you can do.
Quote:
eeevees are not monies yet...they are like baby monies.
 
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Warpe
Old 08-30-2007, 05:18 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 You need a read that he only 4-bets AA to fold this pre. Nothing wrong with getting a/i here.

Your initial raise is too small, btw. Make it $2-3-ish, just shove over his 4-bet.



 
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Dashi
Old 08-30-2007, 06:24 PM #4 (permalink)  

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You got all-in pre-flop with pocket kings. This is my goal EVERY time I have this hand. I agree 100% with the min-raise was a mistake, but ultimately got to the desired result. Reason being is you returned great pot odds to him which required AT least a call.

These numbers are not hard, but I believe 1 in 20 times that you have KK someone else will have AA, 16 out of 20 of THOSE times the AA will holdup. So 16 out of 400 times that you hold KK you'll get stacked by AA. If you are able to get someone all-in 10% of the time you hold KK, then the numbers work something like this

20 villain will hold AA. You win 4 he wins 16
20 villain holds any other hand. Assuming 50/50 lower pair and Ax holding You win 14ish he wins 6

I am ignoring the case where villain hold KK as well fyi.

This is a slight -EV (I think) situation, in my mind. If someone wants to hard hard calculations and correct me or clarify numbers thats cool. Now if your able, through your betting to get all-in pre-flop more than 20% of the time you hold KK, you are WAY ahead of the game.

Harrington on Hold 'em has a great blurb on this situation, goes something along the lines of someone telling he he laid down KK because of some intricate reasoning that said villain held AA, Harrington's quick (but silent) replay was....idiot.

KK I expect to get stacked vs AA
set vs overset I expect to get stacked

If I was prepared to lay down these hands in face of aggression, then what hands am I actually going to play?

My 2 cents
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Ash256
Old 08-30-2007, 07:39 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 Make real raises, minimum 3x please.

KK vs. AA can't be got away from. This is a hand from today against the tightest guy at the table:

Seat 1: BB ($58,75)
Seat 3: UTG ($137,35)
Seat 5: UTG+1 ($140,95)
Seat 6: CO ($99,90)
Seat 8: BTN ($66,80)
Seat 10: SB ($11,35)

SB posts small blind of $0,50; BB posts big blind of $1,00;

Dealt to UTG: Kd,Ks

UTG raises to $4,00; UTG+1 folds; CO raises to $14,00; BTN folds; SB folds; BB folds; UTG raises to $44,00; CO raises to $99,90; UTG calls $55,90;

Dealing flop 2h,Ts,9c
Pot is: $219,30



Dealing turn Tc
Pot is: $219,30



Dealing river Ad
Pot is: $219,30


UTG wins $198,30

Rake and uncalled bets: $21,00

Summary:
Seat 1: BB loses $1,00
Seat 3: UTG wins $94,40 with
Seat 5: UTG+1 stays even
Seat 6: CO loses $113,90 with Qc,Qs
Seat 8: BTN stays even
Seat 10: SB loses $0,50
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nUFamn
Old 08-30-2007, 10:50 PM #6 (permalink)  
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*will raise like a man from now on*

Thanks guys! And yea, he did have AA... within 1 minute of stacking me before when I had QQ :P Really aggravating getting stacked twice in 2 minutes. That's what I think set me off over the last few days.
"Let me tell ya how the internet screwed up poker, okay. When a guy sucks out on the river, on the internet, you cannot take the guy out in the parking lot and you cannot break his fuckin' knees." (Deuce Fairbanks)
 
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Deanglow
Old 08-31-2007, 12:13 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 Fold to the 6-bet.
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bigspenda73
Old 08-31-2007, 12:34 AM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanglow
Fold to the 6-bet.
lol, please tell me you're joking.
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Pants_101
Old 08-31-2007, 12:21 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Yeah the 6th bet means aces, everyone knows that
Must get more aggressive - Tonight we dine in $25NL! rah rah rah! etc
 
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Pelion
Old 08-31-2007, 01:15 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigspenda73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanglow
Fold to the 6-bet.
lol, please tell me you're joking.
god i hope so lol
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
 
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Chopper
Old 08-31-2007, 01:33 PM #11 (permalink)  
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i want to preface this with...i dont lay down KK pf. i think i have 4 times in my life, and i was wrong twice...therefore, dont lay them down pf...period.

anyway, i think it was spoonitnow that wanted to "climb inside the head of a microstakes player." heres a great opportunity.

6-bet pf...must be AA.

now, we know that isnt always the case, but at a 10NL table, it most likely is AA. and, i think we all know that. what else, at this level, takes aggression this far pf? AK wont even do it most times.

if your 3bet gets RRed again, you need to be thinking AA. sure, occasionally, you may find a LAGtard who will raise much more, but you should know that about him already. you may not be able to get off your hand, but you should be up against the narrowist of ranges. anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong, imo, or doesnt understand the microstakes players.

that said, you should be looking for ways to EXPLOIT that thought. look for opportunites to open your 4bet range a bit against someone who can/will fold w/o the nuts. your opponent will automatically be putting you on AA and will only play back at you if he hits something that beats AA.

bet, remember, i said i dont fold KK pf. i shove it earlier. if you are willing to 3bet me, i am pushing over. people will 3bet with a wider range than they will shove or 4bet with, obviously. therefore, you need to get it in while you still are ahead of that range.

raise bigger pf so you can shove faster when you get some interest.

in your hand, if you RR to $2, he has to RR you to $6+, which makes it easier to shove. granted, he wasnt going anywhere, but the only thing you fear is AA. you can get JJ+ and AQ+ to come along here, too. and should be thrilled to see those.
LHE is a game where your skill keeps you breakeven until you hit your rush of random BS.

Nothing beats flopping quads while dropping a duece!
 
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Miffed22001
Old 08-31-2007, 02:47 PM #12 (permalink)  
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 reraise properly.

After that if you got it all in with KK 100bbs or so deep you played it fine, results are irrelevant.
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Deanglow
Old 09-01-2007, 05:09 AM #13 (permalink)  
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 Unless you are like 300bb deep then don't fold KK preflop.
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bigspenda73
Old 09-01-2007, 05:16 AM #14 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanglow
Unless you are like 300bb deep then don't fold KK preflop.
Sigh, this is wrong too.

Can we plz stop generalizing the KKvsAA argument. I've folded KK to a 3bet PF and I've shoved it over a 5bet 250bb deep.

It's opponent dependent, plain and simple.
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