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Moving from 10NL to 25NL post-UIGEA, two hands

  
 
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drtofu66
Old 08-25-2007, 08:32 PM     Post subject: Moving from 10NL to 25NL post-UIGEA, two hands #1 (permalink)  
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Hand 1:

Only 20 hands on villain but TAG stats so far-- 17/8.7/infinity

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $20.30
UTG+1: $12.35
MP1: $23.60
MP2: $11.35
MP3: $29.10
CO: $30.60
Button: $0
Hero: $26.50
BB: $12.50

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is SB with Q A
4 folds, MP3 raises to $1, CO folds, Hero calls.

Flop: Q 2 2 ($2.25, 2 players)
Hero bets $1.25, MP3 raises to $3, Hero ?


I'm wondering if the flop donk bet was worth it since the almost-minraise in position by the PF raiser HU seems mandatory at 25NL. Should I expect a raise like this with AK, any pair and air (as it's effectively a CO opening raise since the Button was sitting out) and just check/call the flop? As played-- call and reevaluate the turn?

Hand 2:

LAGish villain 33/10/2.0 over 39 hands.

Standard (and plan to fold to a river raise)?


Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $11.70
UTG+1: $29.45
MP1: $4.65
MP2: $42.35
MP3: $20.80
CO: $11.70
Button: $7.65
Hero: $25
BB: $45.10

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is SB with Q Q
3 folds, MP2 raises to $0.5, MP3 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises to $2.25, BB folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds.

Flop: T 3 A ($5.25, 2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets $3, Hero calls.

Turn: 5 ($11.25, 2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 checks.

River: 4 ($11.25, 2 players)
Hero bets $4
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BankItDrew
Old 08-25-2007, 08:41 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 Hand 1: I prefer a check raise than a lead. This way, you find out where you are at for as cheap as possible. JJ folds, KK or AA or a 2 keep playing.

Hand 2: I prefer a lead than a check call. Strong lead, again, to find out where you are at. Notice how you put $7 in the pot after this flop? Don't you think it'd make more sense to bet this amount or even $6 on the flop? Blockin bets on the river are fine, but this is not a spot to use it because you are only getting calls from better hands. If you are worried about a big bet on the river, don't put yourself in the situation in the first place.


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Ash256
Old 08-25-2007, 09:40 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BankItDrew
Hand 1: I prefer a check raise than a lead. This way, you find out where you are at for as cheap as possible. JJ folds, KK or AA or a 2 keep playing.
Wait, what?

Doesn't this lose us money if the hands we beat fold and the hands that beat us call? Isn't it cheaper to open-fold than do that?
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martindcx1e
Old 08-26-2007, 05:18 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BankItDrew
Hand 1: I prefer a check raise than a lead. This way, you find out where you are at for as expensive as possible. JJ folds, KK or AA or a 2 keep playing.
fyp

also, how about a 3bet pf in hand 1?
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swiggidy
Old 08-27-2007, 03:40 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 Hand 1: 3 bet pre, cbet, happily fold to resistance

Hand 2: OMG, bet flop. Your river bet doesn't accomplish much.

If his opening raise isn't 3xbb standard, then you may be concerned.
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BankItDrew
Old 08-27-2007, 04:46 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash256
Quote:
Originally Posted by BankItDrew
Hand 1: I prefer a check raise than a lead. This way, you find out where you are at for as cheap as possible. JJ folds, KK or AA or a 2 keep playing.
Wait, what?

Doesn't this lose us money if the hands we beat fold and the hands that beat us call? Isn't it cheaper to open-fold than do that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
Originally Posted by BankItDrew
Hand 1: I prefer a check raise than a lead. This way, you find out where you are at for as expensive as possible. JJ folds, KK or AA or a 2 keep playing.
fyp
I think the problem with leading the flop then getting raised, is that your next decision is a much more difficult one. Compared to, what do do after a c/r.

If you lead then call, do you lead the turn? This is far more expensive than a c/r, and you are giving a 6th card to villain. I can't think of any card for us that both improves our hand yet doesn't scare villain.

If you want to see a showdown for as cheap as possible, without knowing where you are, good luck. You're better off ending the hand before the river.
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Ash256
Old 08-27-2007, 12:57 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 Yes but if JJ folds and KK or AA or a 2 keep playing we're going to be losing money. Whilst eliminating every hand that we're going to be winning money off helps us know that we're beat, I can't see how it's very profitable.

My line here is to 3bet preflop, although idk how profitable that is in FR, I'm a 6max player. As played, I c/c flop and play poker on the turn. Maybe I bluff a diamond, but that's a bit of a shitty dangerous move.
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martindcx1e
Old 08-27-2007, 08:37 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash256
My line here is to 3bet preflop, although idk how profitable that is in FR, I'm a 6max player. As played, I c/c flop...
why check the flop?
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Ash256
Old 08-27-2007, 09:14 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ash256
My line here is to 3bet preflop, although idk how profitable that is in FR, I'm a 6max player. As played, I c/c flop...
why check the flop?
I said "as played" with regards to c/calling the flop, I don't like donking full stop. It's only useful if we want to somehow trip our opponents up and get them wary IMO.
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GrindCity3
Old 08-28-2007, 09:43 AM #10 (permalink)  
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1. 3 bet always and cbet

2. bet flop!!!!
I gotta get back to the money....
 
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Pants_101
Old 08-28-2007, 11:24 AM #11 (permalink)  
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Hand 1 3 bet it pf - if he folds then great, if he calls you can feel pretty happy with your queen on the flop, if he comes over the top you can dump and feel good about it.
Must get more aggressive - Tonight we dine in $25NL! rah rah rah! etc
 
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