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Minraised w/ TPTK

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samsonite2100

05-21-2006, 12:08 AM Post subject: Minraised w/ TPTK

#1 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2005

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Do I 3bet the flop here and fold to a push? His turn bet seemed weak so I raised--should've just put him all in, but whatever, same difference, I guess...

Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($34.60)
BB ($20.00)
UTG ($11.75)
UTG+1 ($18.50)
MP1 ($187.35)
MP2 ($36.20)
Hero ($50.80)
Button ($9.35)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K

, A

. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.50, 1 fold, Hero raises to $2.25, 1 fold, SB (poster) calls $2, 1 fold, MP1 calls $1.75.

Flop: ($7.25) Q

, 5

, A

(3 players)
SB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $5, SB raises to $10, MP1 folds, Hero calls $5.

Turn: ($27.25) 6

(2 players)
SB bets $10, Hero raises to $20,SB raises to $22.35 all in, Hero calls $2.35

River: ($71.95) A

(2 players)

Final Pot: $71.95

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sunfunbunch

05-21-2006, 05:30 AM

#2 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Aug 2005

Posts: 176

Drawless board?

You sir are owned

Your c-bet is about 74% of the pot and villian STILL raises... AND on a rainbow board.

I fold the turn bet.

55, QQ, and AQ have you beat. I don't think AJ or AT play the hand this way.

samsonite2100

05-21-2006, 05:53 AM

#3 (permalink)

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So, that raises the question, do you even call the flop check/raise? It's hard to imagine laying down to a minraise w/ TPTK, but assuming you're right, what am I calling for? An A or K, depending on what I put him on? Is this one of the rare situations where you fold TPTK on the flop?

sunfunbunch

05-21-2006, 06:00 AM

#4 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Aug 2005

Posts: 176

I would have folded this hand as played.

Your c-bet was strong (~75%?) and villian STILL check raised you... I'm done with the hand sir.
Your best situation on this hand is that villian has AQ and you hit on of you three outs (King) to get a better two pair.

If you're behind, you're behind pretty big on THIS board.

So yes, a fold is good too (just 'seems' weak) :P

On the flip side: I think villian was better off calling the flop THEN check raising the turn if he did indeed have AQ, QQ, 55.

As played it's MUCH easier to let go of this hand preflop (making him less money, and saving you more).

Werddown

05-21-2006, 07:24 AM

#5 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Jul 2005

Posts: 302

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunfunbunch

As played it's MUCH easier to let go of this hand preflop .

you mean on the flop?

salsa4ever

05-21-2006, 01:07 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Melbourne

Posts: 1,073

where's your read?

I assume you have at least poker tracker stats...

The fact the stacks are 150BB makes me want to fold the flop. The fact it's 25NL and I got TPTK makes me want to call.

You really need a read to play it. 3-betting the flop is clearly worst. Either as played, or fold the flop. Flip a coin to decide, absent a read

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigred

Would you bone your cousins? Salsa would.

Quote:

Originally Posted by salsa4ever

well courtie, since we're both clear, would you accept an invitation for some unprotected sex?

andy-akb

05-21-2006, 03:02 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Maine

Posts: 1,836

Without a doubt it is situations like this that cost me the most money, I simply dont know how to respond to a minraise and by default usually call them because "its a minraise." Its hard to say fold the turn when the turn bet is how much you called on the flop, so if you are good on the flop you should still be good here and are getting better odds; however, I dont think you are going to be good that often. The general line of thinking is that if you are raised on the turn, you need more than one pair to win. You raised here, but I dont think a worse hand is going to call. Would AJ check/minraise that flop? As salsa said, reads would definitely help. Depending on the player and what hands youve seen them check-raise with, you could find a fold on that flop, if not tough, I think even though the turn lead is small, the line villain is taking is strong. I think Id fold there.

samsonite2100

05-21-2006, 03:24 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Quote:

I assume you have at least Poker Tracker stats...

The fact the stacks are 150BB makes me want to fold the flop. The fact it's 25NL and I got TPTK makes me want to call.

I don't know why the converter had it as BB=.25. It's 50NL. I had just joined the table and had no real reads on villain, other than not seeing him do anything crazy. No PT stats worth reviewing.

After thinking about it for a while yesterday, I'm pretty sure just folding the flop is the best move. For one thing, how many players at the lower buyin levels checkraise the flop, especially flops like this, with less than big holdings? I think the answer is exactly none. If that's the case, and we assume he has at least AQ, calling his flop C/R means we're hoping for an A or K on the turn, although we may still not be good in either of those cases, depending on what he has. I see very little value here in continuing once he's tipped his hand by check-raising.

For the record, he flipped QQ.

jackvance

05-21-2006, 03:43 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Join Date: Mar 2006

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jackvance is an unknown quantity at this point

Yeah, they only do this on the flop with a monster. Best case scenario is that he is holding AQ. If you call, it's for the sheer fact that your read might tell you it's a "test". If he doesn't give it up after, fold easily.

WhooFleuryScores

05-21-2006, 06:33 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Because you have 150BB I am overly cautious with TPGK/TPTK/overpairs(Erick Lindgreen warns how dangerous those hands are as a bigstack facing another 100BB or other bigstack).If you trust your read on villain that he has a pair beat I lay it down(esp if villain is not capable of making moves).

So yeah........I guess I'll lay it down.

sunfunbunch

05-21-2006, 07:10 PM

#11 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Aug 2005

Posts: 176

Quote:

Originally Posted by Werddown

Quote:

Originally Posted by sunfunbunch

As played it's MUCH easier to let go of this hand preflop .

you mean on the flop?

Whoops! Yeah, I meant flop.

QQ, ouch.... live and learn I suppose.

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