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pgil
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01-25-2008, 05:10 AM
Post subject: min-bet donk leads
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#1 (permalink)
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,103
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I have been noticing this a lot lately, and I am wondering where it came from? These things usually coincide with someone saying/writing about this or someone doing this successfully on TV.
It has actually been quite fun because I have been raising these pretty well every time and taking it down about 95% of the time on the flop.
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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min bet leads are common late in tournaments and are successful much of the time because chips are more valuable in tournaments. This might be why you see it a lot on TV. In deep cash games the min bet lead is considered a check for the most part
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pgil
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,103
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I guess my question was: why is this play showing up in my cash game?
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"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,813
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switch back to playing no-limit and it will disappear 
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pgil
I guess my question was: why is this play showing up in my cash game?
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because not everyone is amazing at this game. Min bets in your NL game show up because the bettor either wants a cheap turn/river, or wants to get raised big... usually it's for a cheap turn/river.
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pgil
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,103
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but they seem to have just come out of nowhere. I didn't see the min-bet donk for a long time, and then all of a sudden it appeared everywhere. maybe they were always there and I just wasn't paying enough attention.
the next question is: how often does the donk-bettor have to bet strong on the turn (with nothing obviously) for it to be a better play to delay your raise bluff to the turn to pick up the extra bet? I would assume that this would change if there was an obvious draw on board that opp could have.
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"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pgil
how often does the donk-bettor have to bet strong on the turn (with nothing obviously) for it to be a better play to delay your raise bluff to the turn to pick up the extra bet?
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i don't understand the question
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pgil
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,103
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a lot of the time when you flat call the min bet, the person who made this bet will bet big on the turn. My default play has been to raise their flop bet and take down the pot. I am sort of wondering aloud about the pros and cons of calling the flop bet with the intention of taking the pot away on the turn after they have made the larger bet.
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"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce
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BankItDrew
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
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oh ok, i get it now. I think this is the type of min bet on the flop that wants to get raised big. when the raise doesn't happen, the donk tries to make up for it with a big bet on the next street.
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Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
Girlfriend: Are you on the forums doing the werewolves again?
Girlfriend: Soo... you forgot to run that errand, but you had time to werewolf? Wtf?
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Robb
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,074
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pgil
a lot of the time when you flat call the min bet, the person who made this bet will bet big on the turn. My default play has been to raise their flop bet and take down the pot. I am sort of wondering aloud about the pros and cons of calling the flop bet with the intention of taking the pot away on the turn after they have made the larger bet.
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I see this a lot at my game (NL10 UB). Drew has it right. It's either a monster who wants me to stay in the hand, or a fish. I don't think it's quite 95% fishy, though. I do agree that many folks play donk min raise flop and pot the turn.
Here's my take. I make note of who does this with monsters, and avoid them. Everyone else, I rr about the size of the original pot, almost regardless of my cards. If I find out there's monsters there, I note it and avoid that player in the future. But I sure feel stupid folding AK on a J-high flop to a dime bet into a dollar pot. So sometimes I rr anyway, even if I think i'm beat.
Man those donk-bet min-raises annoy the f**k out of me!!
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