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daven
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06-10-2009, 08:50 AM
Post subject: middle set vs uber-nit station
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#1 (permalink)
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,813
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villain is an uber-nit-reg who recently moved from 50nl to 100nl. We have a tonne of history and he is very exploitable in his nitti-nit-nit-ness - he runs 11-1 over 20k
his ep open range is AA/KK/AK, that's why no 3-bet, even against the mass of callers.
after the flop call his range is unchanged. Like my line? he probably expects me to 3-bet JJ+/AQs+ here
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com
SB ($7.50)
BB ($52)
UTG ($26.50)
Hero (UTG+1) ($101.50)
MP1 ($124.30)
MP2 ($102.15)
MP3 ($4.90)
CO ($90.25)
Button ($33.95)
Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q , Q
1 fold, Hero bets $3.50, 1 fold, MP2 calls $3.50, 1 fold, CO calls $3.50, Button calls $3.50, 1 fold, BB calls $2.50
Flop: ($18) K, Q , 3 (5 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $9, MP2 calls $9, 1 fold, Button calls $9, 1 fold
Turn: ($45) J (3 players)
Hero bets $18, MP2 calls $18, 1 fold
River: ($81) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $66, MP2 calls $66
Total pot: $213 | Rake: $3
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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'spain your bet sizing here?
Why bet small on the turn to pot control then jam the river?
My thought process here is to win the max from AK/KQs/33 and lose the least to KK. Doubt he peels a gutshot. So I'd just go with it and bet like $25+ on the turn.
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lNormajean
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3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 103
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looks pretty standard, if he had kk i guess he would reraise the turn with fd and straight possibilities? u have 20k hands together, u beat his range so valuetown him. no fds complete on the river so all looks gravy
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AFchung
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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aren't we losing a bunch of value by betting so small on flop/turn
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daven
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: soaking up ethanol, moving on up
Posts: 5,813
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
'spain your bet sizing here?
Why bet small on the turn to pot control then jam the river?
My thought process here is to win the max from AK/KQs/33 and lose the least to KK. Doubt he peels a gutshot. So I'd just go with it and bet like $25+ on the turn.
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He never has KQs, he has AA/AK/KK about always. I'm happy to get it in against that range if i can.
flop bet-sizing is as per a 3-bet pot, same rationale and I'd like someone else of the table to come along.
Turn bet-sizing isn't for pot control. It was an attempt to keep the button involved and/or to rep some fear and induce more turn action, but didn't work. I also figured this was the smallest bet that would leave about pot behind, and that villain wouldn't be folding < pot on river if he called the turn (history)
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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Bet 14 on flop at least, anything different needs explaining
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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Da GOAT
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dublin
Posts: 4,308
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Bet 14 on flop at least, anything different needs explaining
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Jman: every time the action is to you, it's an opportunity for you to make the perfect play.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,336
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$12/$30+/shove
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ATOTHEC101
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Full House
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 1,248
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sizing's preety terrible on the flop and turn.
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"This sure beats Super Mario Bros.!" is my ejaculation catch phrase.
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holy shit bet sizing
do whatever, just make sure you shove river for less than pot
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bjsaust
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Straight Flush
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Ballarat, Australia
Posts: 5,842
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You were the PFR.
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Just playing to improve.
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golfguy37
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Straight
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 217
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I bet he had 9-10. That is pretty standard though just bet a little more on the turn and that's pretty much it.
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Deanglow
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Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: lol
Posts: 2,443
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yeah what everyone said about bigger on flop and turn. By river it looks like he cant fold his AK
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by golfguy37
I bet he had 9-10. That is pretty standard though just bet a little more on the turn and that's pretty much it.
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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i understand the small bets vs the nit, you're trying to get him to put money in with AK, but because the other guy has a draw a lot you're making a mistake.
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pokerfan
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
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dont get cute or overthink yourself in multiway pot. Simple poker wins at low-stakes. 
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TwoSmeets
i understand the small bets vs the nit, you're trying to get him to put money in with AK, but because the other guy has a draw a lot you're making a mistake.
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this.
I see what you're trying to accomplish and it sort of makes sense apart from the bit about small bets being like a 3bet pot mentality. In a 3bet pot we don't bet small because ranges are narrower, but because we can get all-in very easily so there's no point making our bluffs more expensive by betting more.
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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AFchung
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Full House
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: UCLA
Posts: 1,179
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by golfguy37
I bet he had 9-10. That is pretty standard though just bet a little more on the turn and that's pretty much it.
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i dont think even 9Ts is in an 11/1 range
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sk8r_daniel
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 330
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Lets get this straight. You raised preflop so the information regarding you to 3bet is useless.
Also, how are you putting him directly on those 3 hands if he plays 11%? He is the one calling you. 11% is alot wider than AK/AA/KK.
If he is only calling you with those hands then I laugh at him for open limping quality starting hands.
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badgers
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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1 % pfr
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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sil693
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Full House
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Birmingham, UK
Posts: 609
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by badgers
1 % pfr
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hero is the preflop raiser.
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badgers
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06-11-2009, 09:26 PM
Post subject: Re: middle set vs uber-nit station
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#22 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
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wow wtf is going onhere
Quote:
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Originally Posted by daven
his ep open range is AA/KK/AK, that's why no 3-bet, even against the mass of callers.
after the flop call his range is unchanged. Like my line? he probably expects me to 3-bet JJ+/AQs+ here
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even daven thinks villain is the pfr!
given that we are the pfr this hand is horrrible! we need to get the money in asap, because there are draws in his range and we are ahead of his stacking off range.
confusing thread.
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3k post - Return of the blog!
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ZwiFT
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Valuebet/fold
Posts: 778
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Something tells me you posted the wrong hand 
After the flop call his range is unchanged? Ofc its changed he just called u
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