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Lost with KK. What should I have done?

  
 
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VidaliaCID230
Old 03-04-2005, 02:40 PM     Post subject: Lost with KK. What should I have done? #1 (permalink)  

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Hand 700606634, Started at 3/3/2005 10:20 PM
Table 'Keelung': $0.25-$0.50 No Limit Texas Hold'em (Real Money)
Seat 1: critmike ($10.60 in chips)
Seat 2: tman2481 ($49.65 in chips)
Seat 3: Ebo81 ($21.80 in chips)
Seat 4: kountry1 ($6.60 in chips)
Seat 5: Primestar ($22.60 in chips)
Seat 6: JYDAWG ($24.15 in chips)
Seat 7: VidaliaCID ($32.60 in chips) (on the button)
Seat 8: insidechance ($32.45 in chips)
Seat 9: Bear Slims ($7.10 in chips)
*** Blind Bet Round *** :
Dealt to VidaliaCID: Kh
Dealt to VidaliaCID: Kd
insidechance : Post Blind ($0.10)
Bear Slims : Post Blind ($0.25)
*** Pre-Flop *** :
critmike : Fold
tman2481 : Call ($0.25)
Ebo81 : Call ($0.25)
kountry1 : Call ($0.25)
Primestar : Call ($0.25)
JYDAWG : Call ($0.25)
VidaliaCID : Raise ($1.00)
insidechance : Fold
Bear Slims : Fold
tman2481 : Fold
Ebo81 : Fold
kountry1 : Call ($0.75)
Primestar : Call ($0.75)
JYDAWG : Call ($0.75)
*** Flop *** : 7d 2s 10d
kountry1 : Check
Primestar : Check
JYDAWG : Bet ($0.25)
VidaliaCID : Raise ($3.00)
kountry1 : Fold
Primestar : Fold
JYDAWG : Call ($2.75)
*** Turn *** : [ 7d 2s 10d ] 3c
JYDAWG : Bet ($3.00)
VidaliaCID : Call ($3.00)
*** River *** : [ 7d 2s 10d 3c ] 9c
JYDAWG : Bet ($5.00)
VidaliaCID : Call ($5.00)
*** Showdown *** : [ 7d 2s 10d 3c 9c ]
JYDAWG : Show Cards [ 10s 3s ]
VidaliaCID : Fold
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $25.55 | Rake: $1.30
Board: [ 7d 2s 10d 3c 9c ]
critmike lost $0.00
tman2481 lost $0.25
Ebo81 lost $0.25
kountry1 lost $1.00
Primestar lost $1.00
JYDAWG bet $12.00, collected $25.55, net $13.55 Shows [ 10s 3s ] (two pairs, tens and threes.)
VidaliaCID lost $12.00
insidechance lost $0.10
Bear Slims lost $0.25


I HAD NOT BEEN GETTING ANY ACTION WITH AA IN THE WHOLE WITH $3 RAISES AND THAT IS WHY I ONLY RAISED A DOLLAR... MAYBE THAT WAS MISTAKE #1.... DID I NOT RAISE ENOUGH AFTER THE FLOP? SHOULD I HAVE KNOWN SOMETHING WAS UP WHEN HE BET $5 AFTER THE RIVER?
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dalecooper
Old 03-04-2005, 02:54 PM #2 (permalink)  
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- should have raised more before the flop (though he should have folded anyway... what idiot plays that hand for a raise? or for that matter, at all?)

- I would bet more on the flop - you've got a potential flush draw out there so be aggressive to make them lay down. I can't believe he called you here either, but clearly he's operating on a different level mentally from the rest of us.
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LeFou
Old 03-04-2005, 03:12 PM     Post subject: Re: DEALT KK LOSS..... WHAT SHOULD I HAVE DONE DIFFEREN #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VidaliaCID230
SHOULD I HAVE KNOWN SOMETHING WAS UP WHEN HE BET $5 AFTER THE RIVER?
YOU SHOULD HAVE KNOWN SOMETHING WAS UP WHEN HE WENT FROM
MINBET->CALL BIG RAISE
TO
BETTTING OUT PRETTY BIG

In all seriousness, there's not *much you can do about these. You should bet the pot every chance you get, but the aggression on the turn meant you probably needed kings-up to call a big river bet. When a weak-passive type all of a sudden wakes up, it's not 'cause he has top pair.
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JeffreyGB
Old 03-04-2005, 03:32 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dalecooper
- should have raised more before the flop (though he should have folded anyway... what idiot plays that hand for a raise? or for that matter, at all?)

- I would bet more on the flop - you've got a potential flush draw out there so be aggressive to make them lay down. I can't believe he called you here either, but clearly he's operating on a different level mentally from the rest of us.
Isn't a 3-4BB raise fairly standard preflop? At a table with this many callers, he should probably err more on the side of 4+ than sticking with 3, but I don't think it's valuable to advertise "I have a big hand, so no one call me"

Agreed about the flop bet. Pot was $5. I'd bet at least that with so many callers.
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VidaliaCID230
Old 03-04-2005, 03:38 PM #5 (permalink)  

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yeah this guy was really giving us fits last night playing with trash... i was looking to burn him later but the opportunity never presented itself...
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whileone
Old 03-04-2005, 04:03 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VidaliaCID230
yeah this guy was really giving us fits last night playing with trash... i was looking to burn him later but the opportunity never presented itself...
raise every hand he's in that you want to play. this guy was probably just dumb, but when you know people are trying to play with rags, never let them see cards cheap. if 4x the big blind dosn't work, keep tacking on 2 more BB's to your pre flop raise untill you find the right balance for the table.

He was probably playing a zillion hands cheap, and getting paid off big when the occasional hand hit. the countermeasure is "No Free Cards"
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dalecooper
Old 03-04-2005, 04:11 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffreyGB
Isn't a 3-4BB raise fairly standard preflop? At a table with this many callers, he should probably err more on the side of 4+ than sticking with 3, but I don't think it's valuable to advertise "I have a big hand, so no one call me"
3-4BB is standard for higher stakes, but with blinds that low I think you need to raise any premium hand more than that - probably 5xBB to weed out some of the calling stations.

And that's even more true here, because a bunch of people had already called ahead of him. Some pros recommend varying your pre-flop raises based on the number of limpers in front of you, and I think that's a good idea. You're trying to encourage a certain amount of action - not too much, not too little. But a raise to $1, when the pot is already $1.60 (I believe) and there's already six people in for a quarter apiece - that's just asking for more callers than you really want. Some will call just because they like calling and the raise isn't scary, and once that snowball gets rolling, the pot odds will be good enough to get everyone in. Frankly I think he's lucky that he only had three callers and not four or five. And any pocket pair in a pot with five other people usually = money lost. Unless you flop the set or something.

Got to bet more on the flop anyway, but if you had pre-flop raised more (say to $1.50 or even $2) and then followed with a stronger flop bet, maybe even Mr. 10-3 would have folded. Hard to say though. I have no idea why he was in this hand in the first place.
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r8ed
Old 03-04-2005, 07:24 PM #8 (permalink)  
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r8ed
I don't fault you for playing the hand the way you did. Getting AA/KK folded to preflop sucks - it happens often even when you bet $1.50 at the .25/.50 level. Then you want some action on your hand when that flop comes out - even with the flush draw. Then the turn doesn't scare me either - it actually makes me happy another diamond didn't come out. The only real concern is that he has rockets that he is fine slowplaying.

Just a tough hand.

I only played the new blind structure for a couple hours. But I think people who were playing $25NL before stayed at that level instead of moving up to $50NL. I think all preflop raises should be made as if the BB was still .50. This may have scared him off...despite his lack of any semblance of rational thought.
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