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Rockymv

06-11-2006, 05:44 PM Post subject: Look Ma...

#1 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 1,177

...I can lay down TPTK! But seriously you guys, I've been working on being more careful with top pair. The first hand here is easy, but the second made me feel like a nit.

Hand 1 - Villian is 41/2

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($31.45)
UTG ($53.15)
UTG+1 ($9.65)
MP1 ($23.75)
MP2 ($22.90)
MP3 ($14.35)
CO ($7.40)
Hero ($36.75)
SB ($15.55)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K

, A

.
UTG calls $0.25, 3 folds, MP3 calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1.25, 2 folds, UTG calls $1, MP3 calls $1.

Flop: ($4.10) 4

, 5

, A

(3 players)
UTG bets $2, MP3 folds, Hero raises to $6, UTG raises to $12, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $22.10

Hand 2 - Villian 23/2

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($19.90)
UTG ($28.70)
MP1 ($21.05)
MP2 ($22.90)
CO ($21)
Button ($34.95)
Hero ($24.75)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K

, A

.
1 fold, MP1 calls $0.25, 1 fold, CO calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1.25, BB calls $1, MP1 calls $1, CO folds.

Flop: ($4) 8

, A

, Q

(3 players)
Hero bets $3, BB raises to $6, MP1 folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $13

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andy-akb

06-11-2006, 06:42 PM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Maine

Posts: 1,836

In both hands Im raising to $1.50 preflop. I think the first hand is very standard and Im folding to the 3bet. In the second hand it isnt as clear. Do you have any reads on your opponent? What does his minraise mean? Some players will minraise a draw, if you have a read that this is how he plays a draw, then put in a third bet, otherwise I think a fold is fine.

Miffed22001

06-11-2006, 06:58 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

hand 2 doesnt look so good

Rockymv

06-11-2006, 07:55 PM

#4 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 1,177

what do i do? three-bet? or maybe call and lead turn?

Dislexsik

06-11-2006, 08:07 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Location: On the grind

Posts: 832

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockymv

what do i do? three-bet? or maybe call and lead turn?

Just call and see what happens.

Rockymv

06-11-2006, 08:11 PM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 1,177

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dislexsik

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockymv

what do i do? three-bet? or maybe call and lead turn?

Just call and see what happens.

I feel like I lose a lot of money doing this.

Miffed22001

06-11-2006, 10:05 PM

#7 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

3 bet
Probably a flush draw but you need to be sure. I guess you can call and bomb any flush free turn folding to a push/reraise
Could simply be someone with tp or any pair who doesnt believe your c-bet

andy-akb

06-11-2006, 10:41 PM

#8 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Maine

Posts: 1,836

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

I agree with this that it simply could be somebody trying to pick off a cbet, thats why having a read of what a minraise is typically for is very helpful. I think if you have a solid read on your opponent that will make your decision easier and most likely you are going to be folding or raising. If you do call [can somebody help point out when a good situation would be to call here] then you need to bet any non-flush turn.

Rockymv

06-12-2006, 01:23 AM

#9 (permalink)

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Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 1,177

it just seems a little silly to me to put 60% of my stack in because he 'might be on a flush draw'. i'm not saying i have a better idea, but it just like overkill given the hand i'm holding.

Miffed22001

06-12-2006, 02:17 AM

#10 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rockymv

it just seems a little silly to me to put 60% of my stack in because he 'might be on a flush draw'. i'm not saying i have a better idea, but it just like overkill given the hand i'm holding.

start c/r ing K high flops with AK then

Rockymv

06-12-2006, 02:29 AM

#11 (permalink)

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Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 1,177

if i 3 bet, how much should i raise to? 12? 15?

here's a hand very similar to hand two. here i chose to call the min-raise, and check/fold when the flush card hit (the turn push didn't seem like a good hand value betting, but i also couldn't think of many hands other than AQ that I beat). also note the donk sitting accross the table from me with stats 6/2.

POKERSTARS GAME #5227088396: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.10/$0.25) - 2006/06/11 - 22:14:01 (ET)
Table 'Chara V' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: oriolesfan77 ($21.10 in chips)
Seat 2: 3000k ($32.30 in chips)
Seat 3: BONYONY ($14.90 in chips)
Seat 4: 500lbgorilla ($25.85 in chips)
Seat 5: na8tivestyle ($8.70 in chips)
Seat 6: Golfie1 ($25.35 in chips)
Seat 7: jh901 ($22.25 in chips)
Seat 8: Rockymv ($29.95 in chips)
Seat 9: Johnson_20 ($25.35 in chips)
500lbgorilla: posts small blind $0.10
na8tivestyle: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Rockymv [Ah Kh]
Golfie1: folds
jh901: folds
Rockymv: raises $0.75 to $1
Johnson_20: folds
oriolesfan77: calls $1
3000k: calls $1
BONYONY: folds
500lbgorilla: folds
na8tivestyle: folds
*** FLOP *** [3d Td Ac]
Rockymv: bets $2.75
oriolesfan77: folds
3000k: raises $2.75 to $5.50
Rockymv: calls $2.75
*** TURN *** [3d Td Ac] [Jd]
Rockymv: checks
3000k: bets $25.80 and is all-in
Rockymv: folds
3000k collected $13.65 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $14.35 | Rake $0.70
Board [3d Td Ac Jd]
Seat 1: oriolesfan77 folded on the Flop
Seat 2: 3000k collected ($13.65)
Seat 3: BONYONY (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: 500lbgorilla (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: na8tivestyle (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: Golfie1 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: jh901 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Rockymv folded on the Turn
Seat 9: Johnson_20 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Rockymv

06-12-2006, 05:14 AM

#12 (permalink)

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Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 1,177

For the record, this is what I'm trying to avoid doing.

POKERSTARS GAME #5229058269: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.10/$0.25) - 2006/06/12 - 01:09:01 (ET)
Table 'Indus III' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: Eyedread ($6.20 in chips)
Seat 2: dtm410 ($8.55 in chips)
Seat 3: Rockymv ($23.15 in chips)
Seat 4: hiang ($8.50 in chips)
Seat 5: DBSacto ($27.20 in chips)
Seat 6: davisjj627 ($18 in chips)
Seat 7: KDav234 ($67 in chips)
Seat 8: JCB54 ($18.20 in chips)
Seat 9: tony buffony ($25.50 in chips)
JCB54: posts small blind $0.10
tony buffony: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Rockymv [Kh Ad]
Eyedread: folds
dtm410: folds
Rockymv: raises $0.75 to $1
hiang: calls $1
DBSacto: folds
davisjj627: calls $1
KDav234: folds
JCB54: folds
tony buffony: folds
*** FLOP *** [9s Qs As]
Rockymv: bets $3
hiang: folds
davisjj627: calls $3
*** TURN *** [9s Qs As] [Td]
Rockymv: bets $7
davisjj627: calls $7
*** RIVER *** [9s Qs As Td] [Ac]
Rockymv: bets $7
davisjj627: calls $7 and is all-in
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Rockymv: shows [Kh Ad] (three of a kind, Aces)
davisjj627: shows [Ah Qh] (a full house, Aces full of Queens)
davisjj627 collected $35.55 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $37.35 | Rake $1.80
Board [9s Qs As Td Ac]
Seat 1: Eyedread folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: dtm410 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Rockymv showed [Kh Ad] and lost with three of a kind, Aces
Seat 4: hiang folded on the Flop
Seat 5: DBSacto folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: davisjj627 showed [Ah Qh] and won ($35.55) with a full house, Aces full of Queens
Seat 7: KDav234 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: JCB54 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: tony buffony (big blind) folded before Flop

Miffed22001

06-12-2006, 05:56 AM

#13 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jun 2005

Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!

Posts: 8,181

3 bet enough to force opp to push/fold but also that you can fold to his push. On a rainbow draw free board tp shudnt be too difficult to get away from because no one calls beyond the flop without you beat in most situations unless you have the table fish/calling station in.

Tp is a foldable hand to almost any raise. The difficuly comes when you come up against bad players or drawing flops. In such a scenario facing a raise you need to 3bet imo to force draws to fold/push. Calling a 3bet on the flop is horrible for drawing hands if the stacks are not deep because if they miss the turn theyre dead. having said that, the line i think Lukie uses most effectivly in these situations is to call on dangerous drawing flops and bomb any draw free turn, then opp has to fold or gambOOL as a big dog.
Lower stakes fr seems to be about making sets and getting paid by bad opponents while value betting top pair against weaker hands/draws and not going bust on it.
I had been playing fr for a bit but went back to 6max smply because if the games arent fishy then it isnt worth playing. You need to be raising hands with good implied odds that get the set hunters guessing when draws hit rather than tp hands or else simply playing pps to set up on implied odds. That isnt to say AK is trash, it just wins abit or looses a lot.
Others may argue differently no doubt.
6 max offers more becasue the game basically revolves around the battle for the blinds. Ok at small stakes its about making hand and value betting the fish to death or stacking them with implied odds and sets but otherwise its about blinds and how big hands can be played revolving around blind stealing. This becomes more important at bigger stakes.
Dont know whether all that helped but meh. Kick me

Fnord

06-12-2006, 08:55 AM

#14 (permalink)

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Posts: 19,336

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

The last hand posted is a painfully obvious turn check. I might even check/call that flop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

biondino

06-12-2006, 12:47 PM

#15 (permalink)

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Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars

Posts: 3,170

The second hand you raise 5xBB pre-flop in MP, and the flop has A and Q on it. No-one in their right mind is going to question your flop bet unless they have a similar or better hand, and no-one is minraising without the goods. Good fold IMO.

Rockymv

06-12-2006, 04:01 PM

#16 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 1,177

Quote:

Originally Posted by biondino

I think the issue people have is that a lot of 25NL players are not in their right minds.

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