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look at this closely

  
 
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wufwugy
Old 05-03-2007, 07:14 AM     Post subject: look at this closely #1 (permalink)  
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 ignore the fact that it's .01/.02. i only have fifteen bucks on Stars right now, yet just started playing there again.

not using HUD, so no stats other than teh general weak players at low limits who tend to not rep it unless they have it, and easily get scared without the nuts, etc. also, he unusually took his time to make the bets.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($5.08)
BB ($2.87)
UTG ($3.34)
UTG+1 ($2.94)
MP1 ($3.52)
MP2 ($5.24)
CO ($12.99)
Button ($3.18)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 8, 8. CO posts a blind of $0.03.
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.02, 1 fold, CO (poster) checks, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB raises to $0.1, MP1 folds, CO folds, Hero calls $0.08.

Flop: ($0.25) K, 8, 7 (2 players)

Hero checks, BB bets $0.08, Hero raises to $0.26, BB raises to $0.78, Hero calls $0.52.

Turn: ($1.81) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $1.74, Hero raises to $4.2, BB calls $0.25 (All-In).

River: ($8) J (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $8

results: i lose to KK






anyways, after his flop repop i put him on nothing other than KK, but still played him like he had AA or AK. problem is, i know that he most likely wouldn't play AA or AK like that. he would just call cuz he's scared or push cuz he's frustrated and wants to believe im aggressively playing a draw.

i dont quite know why im posting this since i know everybody will say it's a call/push, but i just find this so frustrating since the majority of the time i put my opp on a bigger flopped set im right, yet i still get my stack in because, well, they say how can you not.

i just dont see him making those bet sizes with those 'click tells' with anything other than KK.

so i guess what im asking is: is this standard? not that you dont wanna fold a set on the flop or in a reraised pot or whatever, but do you often feel strongly that you're beat yet make the 'right' moves and stack your opponent? i think that part of the issue might be that im playing against llow limit, easier to read, weak opponents, and laying down a set in situations like this against trickier, laggier, taggier, or simply just 'better' opponents isn't correct. maybe. depends. i just hate the conventional wisdom that flopping a set yet being outflopped is just cooler and you're destined to lose your stack. i think that might be because im awesome at getting coolered so i get to think about it more.
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Hal
Old 05-03-2007, 07:24 AM #2 (permalink)  

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Just wanted to /wave cause I think I was the button

3/4 times today got my pocket pairs turned into trips I got beaten by a higher set of trips - so I feel your pain :'(
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bode
Old 05-03-2007, 10:50 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 this could be 77 or AA just as easy at this level. Just go ahead and get your money in on the flop. No sense in leaving $2 behind
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kmind
Old 05-03-2007, 03:28 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 Are we supposed to look closely at the avatar or hand?

I agree with Bode-ist by the way.
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nickthefool
Old 05-03-2007, 04:42 PM #5 (permalink)  
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I was in the same situation, been playing 1c/2c on stars due to very small bankroll and unwillingness to redeposit. Made a bit now though so will be moving up

Never fold a set on a board like this at these limits without an incredibly strong read. The only thing you should be thinking here is how to get all villain's chips in the middle.

PS what time of day do you play on them? I found before midday (stars time) the games are a LOT tighter than later on.
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Ash256
Old 05-03-2007, 05:16 PM #6 (permalink)  
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 Whilst all the timing tells and stuff indicate he had KKK, the thing is, he could've easily felt he had the nuts with something else. I've had situations at micro stakes where I've contemplated folding a weak flush because EVERYTHING my opponent did indicated he had the higher flush, but in fact he had top pair which he felt was the nuts and so he played it like the nuts.
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Miffed22001
Old 05-03-2007, 05:32 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 push
the
flop

with 100bbs behind in a pot like this midle set is never a fold, irrespective of stakes. The flop texture tells us we are stacking off too.
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wufwugy
Old 05-03-2007, 11:03 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bode-ist
this could be 77 or AA just as easy at this level. Just go ahead and get your money in on the flop. No sense in leaving $2 behind
Quote:
Originally Posted by milffed
push
the
flop
why is pushing flop better than a different line? i think it maximizes the chance that what calls is KK and minimzes the chance that what calls is anything else. 4betting all in is very strong, and not that ambiguous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ash
Whilst all the timing tells and stuff indicate he had KKK, the thing is, he could've easily felt he had the nuts with something else. I've had situations at micro stakes where I've contemplated folding a weak flush because EVERYTHING my opponent did indicated he had the higher flush, but in fact he had top pair which he felt was the nuts and so he played it like the nuts.
very good point. hadn't thought of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nick
PS what time of day do you play on them? I found before midday (stars time) the games are a LOT tighter than later on.
varies for me. i play many hours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mind
Are we supposed to look closely at the avatar or hand?
avatar, ldo, lol holla crucialfineassshipmaments, ducy?
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Gritho
Old 05-03-2007, 11:12 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickthefool
PS what time of day do you play on them? I found before midday (stars time) the games are a LOT tighter than later on.
It's evening in europe and a lot of german SSS-pushbots and bigstack-TAGs grind the tables. This style of poker is promoted by the biggest german Party affiliate.
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Miffed22001
Old 05-03-2007, 11:13 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 as noted, we have middle set in a reraised pot. Im felting it. Otherwise why call preflop?
Are you telling me AA/AK are not felting this flop. Also, stakes make a huuuuuuuuge amount of difference. Genrally, id felt any set with 150bbs behind at almost any time (monotone flops excluded)
COnsidering its micro stakes (and i say that if this were 50nl even 100nl to be honest) im still felting even this deep, our equity is just too big to be thinking about great folds etc etc.
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q49z321
Old 05-04-2007, 12:41 AM #11 (permalink)  
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i never ever ever ever fold this regardless of his line at $2nl, i guess i wasn't playing with him, BUT, most people at this level will overvalue hands like K8, K7, 78, and play them exactly the same way this guy played KK. TWO PAIR IS TEH NUTZ!!!! anyway, i just finished ~10k hands of $2nl fr and tried out the 6-max. for some reason, i found 6-max to be MUCH more profitable, and recently moved to $5nl 6-max and am getting about the same (awesome) results. play 6-max, make more moneis? i dunno, just a thought.

nice avatar btw, i tried reading this at work earlier today and had to scroll down real fast and hit the back button. lol. i know how to turn avatars off, but that's no fun.
have you ever drunk bailey's from a shoe?
 
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