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DrNoChance
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07-21-2004, 12:45 PM
Post subject: From a live $40 NL game...
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 411
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I have the worst luck with higher stakes. At least when I drop $100 in offline games I count it as a social outing and it bothers me less 
$40 stacks, $1 is BB.
I have TT in early position. Table is mostly loose and passive (too bad I've been dealt crap all night until this)
I limp in, as does most of the table (not unusual). Someone in late position, who's a bit tighter than most of the table, makes a baby raise of $1. Everybody calls.
Flop is 4 5 8 with a flush draw. What to do, what to do.
I decide that either I have the best hand right now, and need to protect it, or I don't and shouldn't bet. I bet a little over half the pot, 2 callers (the orginal raiser + a calling station). I tell myself it's unlikely with the pre-flop action (a baby late position raise) that JJ-AA is out there, but a set is possible as is a flopped Str8. I'm ready to fold this one if played back at (Was betting at all OOP a mistake?).
Turn is a K, no flush yet. I tell myself that it's unlikely that the K helped either of them, unless it's a flush draw with KQs, KJs, KTs, etc. or they hold K8o (possible for the calling station, less likely for the tighter guy who raised pre-flop). I decide to come at it again for about half of the pot or so. Just the tighter guy calls. I'm a little worried now (should I have slowed down when the K hit or is my reasoning sound here?).
River is a blank. I could check here, but I'm worried that that might induce a missed draw to bluff and I can't call a big bet with this hand. I value bet something like $10 and get quickly called (should I have checked, since I was most likely against a busted draw or a better hand?)
Buddy has AA.  I lose. WHY raise so small with AA from late position when the table calls $4 pre-flop for a joke? Bah!
Comments on this hand? Mistakes on the flop/turn/river (or all of the above)? Or just screwed by position once again?
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Toasty
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07-21-2004, 01:08 PM
Post subject: Re: From a live $40 NL game...
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#2 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: England UK
Posts: 1,522
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DrNoChance
Buddy has AA. I lose. WHY raise so small with AA from late position when the table calls $4 pre-flop for a joke? Bah! |
Sounds like a Tight /Passive to me, if you spot this type of player in the future make smaller bets if you are worried you are beaten they will only raise with the nuts. I played Vs the ultimate Calling Station the other night he would never bet, I could just check when heads up and bet when i caught something.
His pre-flop raise begger's belief, maybe he wanted to be re-raised i dunno crazy.
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Poker is all about the long long long long long long long term . . .
Barney's back . . . back again . . .
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DrNoChance
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Flush
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 411
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On an interesting side note, the calling station player who folded after the turn bet actually had TT as well (which REALLY suprises me that he would fold, although the K probably scared him...still, out of character for him and it meant that I was drawing dead  )
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koolmoe
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Drowning in prosperity
Posts: 1,279
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My take:
If most of the players at the table limp most hands, I would either raise my TT or limp-reraise (if there are a couple of raise-capable players behind me - look for tells to your left here...). I would especially reraise after my limp was raised the minimum. The last thing TT wants is one of every overcard still in the hand. Make Ax, Kx, J8, and the rest of those weaklings fold or pay you to play, and find out how good the raisers hand really is. TT is a good hand on a table where 60% of the players limp in to see the flop!
When tighty calls your (re)raise, then you can think about slowing down. I'm still betting the flop, but when he calls me and I see the K on the turn, I'm putting the brakes on, as AK or Kxs are possibilities.
Sometimes you'll have to pay your opponents off. I think min raising with AA in LP is a bad strategy, and just calling with a flush draw on the board is even worse. I wouldn't feel like the guy outplayed me if I were you.
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DrNoChance
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Flush
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 411
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I thought about raising pre-flop, but being OOP scared me a bit. It's nothing for these guys to call a 4xBB raise with 89s, etc. Often at a full ring table I play JJ/TT from UTG the same way I would, say, 77...to either make a set or throw the hand away (unless a total undercard flop comes). Maybe I need to rethink that strategy on a loose/passive table, and raise TT from UTG.
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koolmoe
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Drowning in prosperity
Posts: 1,279
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DrNoChance
I thought about raising pre-flop, but being OOP scared me a bit. It's nothing for these guys to call a 4xBB raise with 89s, etc. Often at a full ring table I play JJ/TT from UTG the same way I would, say, 77...to either make a set or throw the hand away (unless a total undercard flop comes). Maybe I need to rethink that strategy on a loose/passive table, and raise TT from UTG.
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Think of it this way - at a loose table, all the weak hands are often paying the best *and* second best hands (second best hand can also earn more than its fair share). That's not the case when an opponent has an overpair, (TT vs. AA), but overpairs to TT don't occur all that frequently. If tighty held AK, which is a lot more common holding than AA, you would have been ahead until the turn.
I'm sure you realize this, but I'll say it anyway: Having them call 4xBB with 89s is exactly what you want to happen when you hold TT.
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DrNoChance
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Flush
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 411
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Point well taken. At a solid table, raising TT from the front is asking for it since only better hands than TT will probably call you. This wasn't a solid table . I'm more likely to dominate callers than to be dominated by callers on this table, and should raise accordingly (and maybe slow down if one of the few tighties call, as you said).
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johnnyawe
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Full House
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,064
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I probably would have overbet the pot on the flop, but I still would have ended up losing everything.
I know one thing, there is nothing worse than checking a semi-strong hand on the river and then having your opponent go all-in on a bluff.
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DrNoChance
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Flush
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 411
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It does suck when that happens, but I wonder.....does making a river value bet REALLY do much to keep somebody from bluffing you if they were contemplating doing so already?
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