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Line check: Flopped Nut Straight

  
 
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Renton
Old 03-17-2006, 01:51 AM     Post subject: Line check: Flopped Nut Straight #1 (permalink)  
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 ***** Hand History for Game 3758497581 *****
$50 NL Texas Hold'em - Thursday, March 16, 21:34:04 ET 2006
Table Table 96396 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 3: xserraangelx ( $64.20 )
Seat 5: Renton555 ( $75.07 )
Seat 8: Mr__Rick ( $89 )
Seat 2: tkirbach ( $36.77 )
Seat 1: MUTiger ( $34.55 )
Seat 6: xEVILx ( $48.10 )
Seat 4: icedb ( $35.90 )
Seat 7: SortAAsomm1 ( $53.15 )
Seat 10: sumitup100 ( $31.70 )
Seat 9: royalsflush3 ( $47.65 )
icedb posts small blind [$0.25].
Renton555 posts big blind [$0.50].
royalsflush3 posts big blind [$0.50].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Renton555 [ Jc Qh ]
xEVILx calls [$0.50].
SortAAsomm1 folds.
Mr__Rick folds.
royalsflush3 checks.
sumitup100 folds.
MUTiger folds.
tkirbach folds.
icedb calls [$0.25].
Renton555 checks.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 9h, 8s, Td ]
icedb checks.
Renton555 bets [$1.25].
xEVILx raises [$2.50].
royalsflush3 folds.
icedb folds.
Renton555 calls [$1.25].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 5d ]
Renton555 bets [$4].
xEVILx raises [$10].
Renton555 raises [$32].
xEVILx calls [$26].
** Dealing River ** [ 6c ]
Renton555 is all-In [$36.07]
xEVILx is all-In [$9.10]
Renton555 shows [ Jc, Qh ] a straight, eight to queen.
xEVILx doesn't show [ 8d, 8c ] three of a kind, eights.
Renton555 wins $26.97 from side pot #1 with a straight, eight to queen.
Renton555 wins $94.20 from the main pot with a straight, eight to queen.

As you can no doubt see from the preceding hand, my opening run at NL50 on party is still going immensely well (about 16bb/100 over 3.5k hands). I am still pretty new to this game and I think one of my leaks is losing value on nut hands. It seems like I either play them too slow or too fast. How's my line here?
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Miffed22001
Old 03-17-2006, 01:54 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 i dont see this has any problems. You got the mistake from the set on the turn. If he sucks out then meh f*k it!
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LeFou
Old 03-17-2006, 03:13 AM #3 (permalink)  
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that's the correct line in my opinion. btw who exactly are you Renton?
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Renton
Old 03-17-2006, 04:44 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeFou
that's the correct line in my opinion. btw who exactly are you Renton?
what you mean?
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r8ed
Old 03-17-2006, 02:39 PM #5 (permalink)  
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nh Renton. This is the perfects spot to smooth-call the flop rather than jacking it up due to having the hight str8 and no flush draw. After making that move, building the pot on the turn should be your goal and you did it perfectly. I guess the 5 on the turn didn't scare him off and you committed him enough on the turn that the 6 on the river can't give him reason to fold to a straight. If you didn't get all that money in on the turn you probably win less money.
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Fnord
Old 03-17-2006, 03:43 PM #6 (permalink)  
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I think you're just best off 3-betting the flop and making it look like a semi-bluff. However, your line is a nice mix-up against a thinking player as it looks like something like top pair or 2 pair defending against a draw.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Rondavu
Old 03-17-2006, 05:25 PM #7 (permalink)  
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It's that fine line between disguising your hand, and not allowing scare cards to dry up your action. I 3-bet in this situation. I assume the opponents intelligence level is -EV for an extra card.
It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
 
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Fnord
Old 03-17-2006, 05:27 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Yeah, I'd save this line for a guy like Lukie who'll put you on a worse hand and push the turn.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Renton
Old 03-17-2006, 05:29 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 Doesn't threebetting the flop just scream straight? If the flop were 7TJ and I had 89 then I could see doing that. If I had a set on a three-connected flop and someone three bet me all-in, I'd seriously consider folding.

Of course a foolish player wouldn't even consider folding bottom set, soooo...
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Fnord
Old 03-17-2006, 05:32 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
Doesn't threebetting the flop just scream straight?
No, but calling does.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Renton
Old 03-17-2006, 05:32 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 also my line affords me the ability to get away from the hand if the board pairs on the turn.
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Fnord
Old 03-17-2006, 05:33 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
also my line affords me the ability to get away from the hand if the board pairs on the turn.
I've rather just pot-fuck myself and get all the money in. No way I put him on exactly a set.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Renton
Old 03-17-2006, 05:34 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
also my line affords me the ability to get away from the hand if the board pairs on the turn.
I've rather just pot-fuck myself and get all the money in. No way I put him on exactly a set.
true
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r8ed
Old 03-17-2006, 05:38 PM #14 (permalink)  
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It's obvious after the hand played out that 3-betting the flop is probably a better play. But you really don't know the strength of his hand and getting him to fold on the flop when he's probably drawing to the (courtie end) str8 or has TPTK is a risk. The flop call makes it look like you are drawing. It's just potentially unfortunate that the 5 comes out. I guess there are several scare cards that could dry up your action but I think it's worth it to feign weakness in hopes he hits 2nd best hand.
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Fnord
Old 03-17-2006, 05:40 PM #15 (permalink)  
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At this level, I'm not worried about blowing him out of the pot with a well sized 3-bet. That would pretty much get all of the money in, since I would expect a set to go over-the-top.

The min-raise is a pretty strong show of strength at this level too. I think he thought he was sucking us in with his monster bottom set in an unraised pot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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r8ed
Old 03-17-2006, 05:51 PM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
The min-raise is a pretty strong show of strength at this level too. I think he thought he was sucking us in with his monster bottom set in an unraised pot.
He could be pulling an FTR with TPTK. You know - raise the flop to find out where he's at.
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BankItDrew
Old 03-17-2006, 07:00 PM #17 (permalink)  
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 Well, you played it fine because you stacked him.

Myself however, tends to rape flops as much as possible so that when I flop the nuts against a set, the hand is over and both stacks are in the middle.


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Fnord
Old 03-17-2006, 08:03 PM #18 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BankItPayette
Well, you played it fine because you stacked him.
Results oriented much?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Lukie
Old 03-17-2006, 08:18 PM #19 (permalink)  
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 I'd lead out stronger on the flop, but as played, you really need to put in a large 3rd bet. There's just too much behind and too little in the pot with too many cards that beat you or kill your action.
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Renton
Old 03-17-2006, 08:22 PM #20 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukie
I'd lead out stronger on the flop, but as played, you really need to put in a large 3rd bet. There's just too much behind and too little in the pot with too many cards that beat you or kill your action.
I led out for almost the pot on the flop. Do you honestly think I should have bet more than this?

The 3-bet is a good point though. It's just this was a pretty weak-tight table and I didn't want to chase him away on a coordinated board.
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Lukie
Old 03-17-2006, 08:24 PM #21 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Yeah, I'd save this line for a guy like Lukie who'll put you on a worse hand and push the turn.
In a limped pot against an FTRer from the BB betting into a lot of strength?
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Lukie
Old 03-17-2006, 08:29 PM #22 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Renton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukie
I'd lead out stronger on the flop, but as played, you really need to put in a large 3rd bet. There's just too much behind and too little in the pot with too many cards that beat you or kill your action.
I led out for almost the pot on the flop. Do you honestly think I should have bet more than this?

The 3-bet is a good point though. It's just this was a pretty weak-tight table and I didn't want to chase him away on a coordinated board.
$1.25 lead at $.25/$.50NL in a 4-way limped pot isn't almost pot... including rake that is a $1.25 lead into a $1.90 pot, and just isn't enough for the situation IMO.

Quote:
The 3-bet is a good point though. It's just this was a pretty weak-tight table and I didn't want to chase him away on a coordinated board.
MORE then half the deck has a good chance of beating you or killing your action... namely 16 4-straight cards and 10 board pairing cards. A guy limps UTG then min-raises your BB lead. He's usually strong here.

And not wanting to chase somebody away is never a good reason not to bet when the situation clearly warrants it.
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BankItDrew
Old 03-17-2006, 08:40 PM #23 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by BankItPayette
Well, you played it fine because you stacked him.
Results oriented much?
You can't overly criticize someone for taking another persons stack w/out sucking out on them. But you can a little.


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Lukie
Old 03-17-2006, 08:51 PM #24 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BankItPayette
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
Originally Posted by BankItPayette
Well, you played it fine because you stacked him.
Results oriented much?
You can't overly criticize someone for taking another persons stack w/out sucking out on them. But you can a little.
100bb deep. I open on the button for 4bb with T4o. The two players on my left are EXTREMELY tight. SB folds. BB pushes all-in. I call. BB has 98s. Theoretically, cards face up, I played this hand perfectly...........

Still a good call? My ten high held up and I 'scooped'.

edit cant type
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