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cardsman1992

02-24-2007, 03:04 PM Post subject: Line check $200

#1 (permalink)

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I have been taking shots here and there at $200. Villain is fivetenatrad, a LAGG, 40/12/2. I have played plenty of hands with him at $100, and he will mix it up with less than the nuts. We have mixed it up a few times and are about even against each other.

Is turn check okay? I felt with the 2nd nuts I could check the turn and let him stab at the river. Should I have gone ahead and bet the turn? I thought I would lose him there. On river, I raised to pot size on the river. Can I push this and still likely get callled? I thought push would scream full house and I would lose him there......

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $1/$2
7 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $205.60
UTG+1: $186
MP1: $97
CO: $63
cardsman: $429.15
SB: $119.35
BB: $249.75

Pre-flop: (7 players) cardsman is Button with :9h :9s
UTG folds, MP1 calls, CO folds, cardsman raises to $10, SB folds, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: :jd :td :9c ($31, 4 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, cardsman bets $20, BB calls.

Turn: :9d ($71, 3 players)
BB checks, cardsman checks.

River: :ah ($71, 3 players)
BB bets $26, cardsman raises to $98...

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Warpe

02-24-2007, 03:37 PM

#2 (permalink)

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VNH sir. Turn check is awesome.

zook

02-24-2007, 05:44 PM

#3 (permalink)

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NH c-man. I bet the flop a little harder ~$25 to make it easier to get the money in later. I've logged a lot of hands against this opp and I could go either way on the turn. If he has one pair or air, the check will win you a little more, since he loves to attack weakness, but it drastically reduces the chance of you getting his stack. River raise size is an interesting decision... as soon as you raise he puts you on 2pr at least, so he needs the straight or a flush to call. I think you can discount the straight b/c he would raise KQ preflop and 87 wouldn't slowplay this board. So you're looking to get value from flushes and boats. I think the nut flush calls a bigger raise, but probably not a low flush, and any boat calls a push. Since there's so much behind, I think a push or at least a bigger raise might be more +EV.

BTW, don't post results, even in white! In this case, I'd leave out everything after your raise to $98.

Miffed22001

02-24-2007, 06:27 PM

#4 (permalink)

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sick turn check, im wondering if you should shove river but nh regardless

zook

02-24-2007, 09:23 PM

#5 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Warpe

Turn check is awesome.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miffed22001

sick turn check

You know, I think I disagree, unless villain is good enough to fold a flush to a turn bet,which I don't think this lag is.

Let's figure out his range. For reasons I already mentioned, I think you can leave out a str8. I mentioned the possibility of a boat, but this guy would raise up JJ and TT pre-flop, so I'd take that out too. That leaves: a weak top pair hand (KJ, QJ), two pair (JT), a straight draw that didn't come in (QJ,Qx), or a turned flush. In the case of the first three hands, the turn check behind is smart, because you might get a river bet from him. But he's never calling a river raise with these hands, so at most you're gaining $40 or $50. But if he made his flush, he's calling and possibly raising a turn bet and either leading the river or calling a moderate bet. I think by betting the turn you're sacrificing a possible $40 for the chance to get his stack, or a lot of it. Again, if you think this guy is good enough to lay down a flush to a $40 turn bet, then it isn't a good play, but I don't think he is.

Really interesting hand.

IowaSkinsFan

02-24-2007, 10:52 PM

#6 (permalink)

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Maybe I'm just an SH "let's stack the guy" retard but I bet the turn, The pot is just too small to my liking.

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cardsman1992

02-25-2007, 01:41 AM

#7 (permalink)

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removed results for future viewers....

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Current BR: $10080(04/06/2009) BR Goal: $15000--I LOVE RB!!!
End date: 31aug2009
Current stakes: $100/200NL FR

cardsman1992

02-25-2007, 02:26 PM

#8 (permalink)

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Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397

Posts: 1,065

Yeah, I wonder now if I used a TAGG line against a LAGG player. I think river shove is better. Just don't know if he calls a push on a paired board with low flush.......

I still like turn check though Z. I think it says I'm scared and it looks like KK/QQ or AdX....so come bluff the river at me!! I understand your reasoning though. Betting would make it easier to get it in on the river for sure.....

Operation Grind For Education:

Current BR: $10080(04/06/2009) BR Goal: $15000--I LOVE RB!!!
End date: 31aug2009
Current stakes: $100/200NL FR

zook

02-25-2007, 03:47 PM

#9 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by cardsman1992

I still like turn check though Z. I think it says I'm scared and it looks like KK/QQ or AdX....so come bluff the river at me!!

It definitely gets the most value out of a mediocre hand, but it loses value against a flush, imo. I'm just saying that with the eff nuts, you should look to get value from the best hands in your opponent's range b/c it's more +EV long-term.

Fnord

02-25-2007, 11:01 PM

#10 (permalink)

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Quote:

Originally Posted by zook

it loses value against a flush, imo.

We re-gain some of that value all of the times a busted flush bluffs at the river or gets there and pot-fucks himself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

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