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limp AA pwns...

  
 
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Chicago_Kid
Old 05-30-2006, 05:19 AM     Post subject: limp AA pwns... #1 (permalink)  
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Ok, this time the villan won. After I got over the shock, I had to give him kudos for pwning me here (its my new pledge for a more Zen-like approach at the table).

After a "luck you, unlucky me" comment by me, this peanut gallery idiot started railing me for not knowing Regg had AA and laying down. I defended myself a bit, before just shutting up and playing on.

To add some context, the hand before I had KK (yes, I had then twice in a row) and raised the SB to 11 and folded the table around through 5 limpers. So this 2nd KK hand comes up...and I thought maybe this guy could put this move me with TT/JJ/QQ. Anyway, wondering a couple things:
1) how often (if ever) do you limp AA from EP/MP
2) if you laydown or play diff in my position

As far as reads, this guy was a 20/4/.5, but I had no real good hand reads on him in the session.

TY,
CK

***** Hand History for Game 4396027890 *****
$100 NL Texas Hold'em - Tuesday, May 30, 00:43:09 ET 2006
Table Table 95355 (Real Money)
Seat 1 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Chicago_Kid ( $66.82 )
Seat 3: Lisorb ( $58.05 )
Seat 10: pit540540 ( $96 )
Seat 8: muttpup ( $100 )
Seat 2: bobodice7 ( $181.70 )
Seat 4: DuHast533 ( $68.85 )
Seat 6: ReggDunlop7 ( $101.45 )
Seat 9: renn703 ( $43.20 )
Seat 5: drew_222 ( $124.96 )
Seat 7: SUKS_2_B_U ( $55.29 )
bobodice7 posts small blind [$0.50].
Lisorb posts big blind [$1].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Chicago_Kid [ Kh Ks ]
DuHast533 calls [$1].
drew_222 calls [$1].
ReggDunlop7 calls [$1].
SUKS_2_B_U folds.
muttpup calls [$1].
renn703 folds.
pit540540 folds.
Chicago_Kid raises [$10].
bobodice7 folds.
Lisorb folds.
DuHast533 folds.
drew_222 folds.
ReggDunlop7 raises [$28].
muttpup folds.
Chicago_Kid is all-In.
ReggDunlop7 calls [$37.82].
** Dealing Flop ** [ 7c, 8h, 2h ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ 6d ]
** Dealing River ** [ 8c ]
ReggDunlop7 shows [ As, Ah ] two pairs, aces and eights.
Chicago_Kid doesn't show [ Kh, Ks ] two pairs, kings and eights.
ReggDunlop7 wins $135.14 from the main pot with two pairs, aces and eights.
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Fnord
Old 05-30-2006, 05:45 AM #2 (permalink)  
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lol at the over-limped AA. I pay this off too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Lukie
Old 05-30-2006, 07:30 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Lukie
Old 05-30-2006, 07:33 AM     Post subject: Re: limp AA pwns... #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chicago_Kid
Ok, this time the villan won. After I got over the shock, I had to give him kudos for pwning me here (its my new pledge for a more Zen-like approach at the table).
no he didn't own you, the cards did. It's really really hard for him not to stack you here...

Quote:
After a "luck you, unlucky me" comment by me, this peanut gallery idiot started railing me for not knowing Regg had AA and laying down. I defended myself a bit, before just shutting up and playing on.
sssssshhhhhhhhhhhhh

Quote:
1) how often (if ever) do you limp AA from EP/MP
hardly ever

Quote:
2) if you laydown or play diff in my position
you played it fine
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spino1i
Old 05-30-2006, 07:38 AM #5 (permalink)  
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given the previous hand, the fact that he limped after two callers (and still has a PFR of 5%) and the heros (Edit: oops) somewhat short stack I think its hard to find a fold here.

To answer your other question, I almost always limp AA from EP/MP (if im the 1st one in, sometimes 2nd one in if theres a real aggressive raiser on the button/CO). However if I had been in the villains situation here, I would have raised AA from the get-go.
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Playing now: $10/10/20 - $20/40 NL live, $10/20 NL full ring online, $10/20 NL 6-max online, $20/40 FL 6-max online, $100/200 FL live
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Lukie
Old 05-30-2006, 07:39 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spino1i
given the previous hand and the hero's somewhat short stack I think its hard to find a fold here.

To answer your other question, I almost always limp AA from EP/MP (if im the 1st one in)
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zaaaaaak
Old 05-30-2006, 08:30 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Wow, 10 bucks to go?

That's what I call a fucking raise.
fal04: there's not too many hands i won't play for a quarter if i'm feeling it
fal04: i'll play 7-2 off if i feel it
 
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Lukie
Old 05-30-2006, 04:58 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spino1i
given the previous hand, the fact that he limped after two callers (and still has a PFR of 5%) and the heros (Edit: oops) somewhat short stack I think its hard to find a fold here.

To answer your other question, I almost always limp AA from EP/MP (if im the 1st one in, sometimes 2nd one in if theres a real aggressive raiser on the button/CO). However if I had been in the villains situation here, I would have raised AA from the get-go.
spino1i, I have a question for you.

In the 2/4 game that I play in (this is pretty much true in every somewhat-agressive game otu there), whenever there is an open limp, that limper seems to get attacked agressively by a positional raise pretty much every time. Is this why you frequently open limp AA (since this 'over-agression' can be so easily exploitable)? Do you open-limp a lot? Do you ever feel that people start picking up on this and choose not to raise your open limps (a disaster for you)? I'm guessing that most players wouldn't even start to get a clue for a long time, but I'm interested to hear what you have to say.
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dzeanah
Old 05-30-2006, 05:06 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Sorry, wanted to be able to parse it more clearly...

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

Hero ($66.82)
SB ($181.70)
BB ($58.05)
UTG ($68.85)
UTG+1 ($124.96)
UTG+2 ($101.45)
MP1 ($55.29)
MP2 ($100)
MP3 ($43.20)
CO ($96)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K, K. SB posts a blind of $0.50.
UTG calls $1, UTG+1 calls $1, UTG+2 calls $1, 1 fold, MP2 calls $1, 2 folds, Hero raises to $10, 2 folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 raises to $29, MP2 folds, Hero calls $56.82 (All-In), UTG+2 calls $37.82.

Flop: ($138.14) 7, 8, 2 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($138.14) 6 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($138.14) 8 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $138.14

Results in white below:
UTG+2 has As Ah (two pair, aces and eights).
Hero has Kh Ks (two pair, kings and eights).
Outcome: UTG+2 wins $138.14.
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r8ed
Old 05-30-2006, 07:12 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Why didn't you $33.18 more on this hand?
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WhooFleuryScores
Old 05-30-2006, 09:48 PM #11 (permalink)  
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You should make sure you have a full stack at all times......$65 isn't a whole lot at NL100 and makes any person limp rerasing to pull a move on you easier.

That b eing said I would fold this on the flop if I miss my set.
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andy-akb
Old 05-30-2006, 10:18 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WhooFleuryScores
You should make sure you have a full stack at all times......$65 isn't a whole lot at NL100 and makes any person limp rerasing to pull a move on you easier.

That b eing said I would fold this on the flop if I miss my set.
I would think that it would be easier to make a move on somebody deep stack as opposed to somebody short stacked. They were also AI preflop, were you saying he should call the reraise and check/fold the flop if he doesnt have a set after commiting nearly half his stack?

I dont think the hero could have avoided this, but I feel like his inital PFR was fairly large. Is my thinking off here?
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Chicago_Kid
Old 06-01-2006, 05:42 AM #13 (permalink)  
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The more I think about this one, the less likely I think I coulda gotten away from it HU. The only way I could have is if he raised pf and then r/r me AI. Then I might have folded given that he was particularly passive. On avg, I just don't think it pays to lay this down without being up against an ultra TAP.

Besides, I was especially "frisky" that night, so I might see QQ or AK go in here if they get impatient.

Interestingly, looking at my past HH's I've only folded KK 4 times preflop in 120k hands. Twice voluntarily, and twice I timed out In addition, over this same sample, I didn't end up AI PF against AA more than 10 times with KK. Here's one legit laydown, which was pretty easy 3-way, and a different scenario altogether:

Game #1245910033: Hold'em NL ($0.50/$1) - 2005/11/05 - 19:53:40 (ET)
Table "Orchid" Seat 6 is the button.
Seat 1: BOYSROMA ($41.75 in chips)
Seat 2: vanlarge ($35.75 in chips)
Seat 3: J JACKS ($99.75 in chips)
Seat 4: maxrake ($23 in chips)
Seat 5: Chi-Kid ($88 in chips)
Seat 6: cAll_in ($18.50 in chips)
Seat 7: Tatoupike ($79 in chips)
Seat 8: Jim23 ($44.25 in chips)
Seat 9: Macspot ($99 in chips)
Seat 10: Wranglerr ($101.75 in chips)
Tatoupike: posts small blind $0.50
Jim23: posts big blind $1
----- HOLE CARDS -----
dealt to Chi-Kid [Kd Kc]
Macspot: folds
Wranglerr: raises to $5
BOYSROMA: calls $5
vanlarge: folds
J JACKS: folds
maxrake: calls $5
Chi-Kid: raises to $25
cAll_in: folds
Tatoupike: folds
Jim23: raises to $44.25 and is all-in
Wranglerr: raises to $101.75 and is all-in
BOYSROMA: folds
maxrake: is all-in $18
Chi-Kid: folds
Returned uncalled bets $57.50 to Wranglerr
----- FLOP ----- [Jh 9d Jd]
----- TURN ----- [Jh 9d Jd][2c]
----- RIVER ----- [Jh 9d Jd 2c][6c]
----- SHOW DOWN -----
Wranglerr: shows [Ad As] (Two Pairs, Aces and Jacks, Nine high)
maxrake: shows [Ks Kh] (Two Pairs, Kings and Jacks, Nine high)
Jim23: shows [5s 3s] (A Pair of Jacks, Nine high)
Wranglerr collected $44.50 from Side pot #1
Wranglerr collected $94.50 from Main pot
----- SUMMARY -----
Total pot $142 Main pot $94.50 Side pot #1 $44.50 | Rake $3
Board [Jh 9d Jd 2c 6c]
Seat 1: BOYSROMA folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: vanlarge folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: J JACKS folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Chi-Kid folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: cAll_in (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: Tatoupike (small blind) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Macspot folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 10: Wranglerr showed [Ad As] and won ($139) with Two Pairs, Aces and Jacks, Nine high
****HAND ENDS****

Either way, even with this destacking I didn't tilt off and I had a great session overall, which I was most happy about.
"Been gone so long, forgot how to poker"
 
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theDEEPdish
Old 06-01-2006, 08:23 AM #14 (permalink)  
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I think the limp/reraise indicates AA enough for it to be plus ev to fold KK
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Lukie
Old 06-01-2006, 04:34 PM #15 (permalink)  
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 folding is never +ev
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