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Ladies in the hole but could I have got more value?

  
 
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Benoso
Old 01-03-2007, 10:24 PM     Post subject: Ladies in the hole but could I have got more value? #1 (permalink)  
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I have about $50, he has the same. No reads, he's virtually only just sat down.

Dealer: Dealing cards
Dealer: Your cards :Qd: :Qh:
Dealer: J0mapel folds
Dealer: seacucumbers checks
Dealer: Julibe folds
Dealer: Drakkar calls $0.50
Dealer: Benoso raises $2.25
Dealer: Goodfellas2 folds
Dealer: seacucumbers folds
Dealer: Drakkar calls $2
Dealer: Dealing Flop
:Th:
Dealer: Benoso bets $7
Dealer: Drakkar calls $7
Dealer: Dealing Turn

Dealer: Benoso bets $20
Dealer: Drakkar folds
Dealer: Winner is Benoso $39
Dealer: Winner is Benoso $39

I think I could have bet smaller but in situations like this I panic and get excited when trying to price out the draw.

Thoughts?
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swiggidy
Old 01-03-2007, 10:50 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 I think it's a bit too much. You overbet the flop, correct? Looks like $5 to me. Then PSB on the turn?

I think $5 on the flop, then $10-12 (assuming pot is $15) on the turn is more standard.
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zook
Old 01-03-2007, 10:56 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Looks like you overbet the flop and potted the turn? I go for $5 on the flop and 3/4 pot on the turn. I doubt he's calling $15 instead of $20 here though, so you probably did the best you could. Remember, even a half-pot bet on the turn will deny pot odds to a flush draw, assuming he has no other outs and you won't call a bet if his flush hits. To be safe though, I usually bet 2/3 to 3/4 pot in case he has a pair (and two more outs).
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Benoso
Old 01-04-2007, 02:29 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Cheers guys, very helpful.

Also, what would be the best play if he calls the 2/3 pot bet on the turn and the river throws up a diamond? Do I just completely shut down then or what? Blocking bet? Blocking bet seems ineffective because if he has made his flush he's coming over the top alot of the time.

One of my leaks is when I'm in situations like this, I don't give pot odds on any street and then the card that makes the flush/straight hits the river and I get so pissed off that they haven't laid down they're hand that I'm prone to just fire off a huge bet (usually all-in) out of desperation/frustration. How can I plug that?
 
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zook
Old 01-04-2007, 04:47 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benoso
Also, what would be the best play if he calls the 2/3 pot bet on the turn and the river throws up a diamond? Do I just completely shut down then or what? Blocking bet? Blocking bet seems ineffective because if he has made his flush he's coming over the top alot of the time.

One of my leaks is when I'm in situations like this, I don't give pot odds on any street and then the card that makes the flush/straight hits the river and I get so pissed off that they haven't laid down they're hand that I'm prone to just fire off a huge bet (usually all-in) out of desperation/frustration. How can I plug that?
It's a common leak. Generally I shut down (check/fold). In the long run, by betting enough on the flop and turn to deny proper pot odds to a draw, you'll win money if he calls AND you don't put any more money in once the flush hits. If he makes some weak sauce bet and gives you great pot odds you might be able to call profitably (and if he has the flush, make a note that he bets them small). Also, if you can put him on a different hand that might play it the same way, you can sometimes risk a call... like you have AK on a A74 two-tone board, turn is a blank, river his the flush. Some opponents play AQ or AJ passively in this situation, so you might risk a river call. Reads are crucial, without one I usually check/fold.

This whole thought process is why floating can be profitable. Let's say you have 87 of spades on the button and you call a pre-flop raise from a tight player in EP. Flop comes AhTh7c, villain leads for 3/4 pot. You're not sure if he has an ace or is c-betting, but you have bottom pair, and you can bluff the flush if it comes on the turn, so you call. Turn comes 6d, villain leads for 2/3 pot. Now you're pretty sure he has TPGK but you can profitably call because you have 4 clean outs (any 9) 2 pretty clean outs (two 7s) and 11 bluffing outs (any heart). You want to have a read that villain can fold decent hands before you make this kind of play, but it's a good example of using position to your advantage.
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