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L to the Aggy

  
 
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bigred
Old 09-15-2005, 08:30 AM     Post subject: L to the Aggy #1 (permalink)  
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bigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to all
 ibsven shows [ As, Ad ] a pair of aces.
bigredbgj shows [ 3d, 9d ] two pairs, nines and threes.
bigredbgj wins $529.70 from the main pot with two pairs, nines and threes.

No one wants to play in a hand with me, do you see why?
LOL OPERATIONS
 
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Ivory
Old 09-15-2005, 08:35 AM #2 (permalink)  
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post the whole hand history so we can bask in its glory
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bigred
Old 09-15-2005, 08:40 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 Simple HH, I raised 4x on button, min reraise, I call.

Flop is 369. He raises, I reraise all in, and money is my friend.
LOL OPERATIONS
 
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BIGandRICH
Old 09-15-2005, 11:44 AM #4 (permalink)  
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i did that with K10 a few nights ago.. he limp called it and flop is 10 10 5.. dont you love bad players
villain goes AI
i call with a set (i have him owned)
i win pot
villain: **** this, this site is bullshit, ******* rigged, suck out ****
 
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bigred
Old 09-15-2005, 05:06 PM #5 (permalink)  
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bigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to allbigred is a name known to all
 Here's a good read off the fact that people think they can play back at me.

Seat 1: bigredbgj ( $273.50 )
Seat 2: Himeno ( $189.15 )
Seat 3: RascalKing88 ( $142.95 )
Seat 4: VarlosZ ( $219.95 )
Seat 5: rohoh ( $201.97 )
Seat 7: Just1Pot ( $191.50 )
Seat 9: Duffy2000 ( $194 )
Seat 10: IsoscelesKramer ( $207.95 )
Seat 8: Cr1cko123 ( $280.70 )
Seat 6: Hollywade ( $207.40 )
IsoscelesKramer posts small blind [$1].
bigredbgj posts big blind [$2].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to bigredbgj [ Kh Ks ]
Himeno folds.
RascalKing88 calls [$2].
VarlosZ folds.
rohoh folds.
Hollywade folds.
Just1Pot folds.
Cr1cko123 folds.
Duffy2000 raises [$4].
IsoscelesKramer folds.
bigredbgj raises [$10].
>You have options at Table 53814 Table!.
RascalKing88 folds.
Duffy2000 calls [$8].
>You have options at Table 53814 Table!.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 5c, 8s, 6h ]
bigredbgj bets [$15].
Duffy2000 calls [$15].
** Dealing Turn ** [ 9s ]
>You have options at Table 53814 Table!.
bigredbgj bets [$35].
Duffy2000 calls [$35].
** Dealing River ** [ 6d ]
bigredbgj checks.
Duffy2000 bets [$85].
bigredbgj calls [$85].
Duffy2000 shows [ Th, Ac ] a pair of sixes.
bigredbgj shows [ Kh, Ks ] two pairs, kings and sixes.
bigredbgj wins $294 from the main pot with two pairs, kings and sixes.
LOL OPERATIONS
 
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Zangief
Old 09-15-2005, 05:28 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigred
Simple HH, I raised 4x on button, min reraise, I call.

Flop is 369. He raises, I reraise all in, and money is my friend.
Should he have known that your reraise all-in meant he was beat? Or do you do that as a semi-bluff or bluff as well?
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PokerPatNEU
Old 09-15-2005, 05:31 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Min-reraise pre flop is a sign of a strong hand because it just wants more money in the pot, so bigred has that info. Extremely raggy board that doesn't connect with any hand that conventionally will raise 4x BB pre flop tells villain that his AA is probably ahead here. Put those two facts together and it's a pretty safe bet that the push will get called, whether he makes that move on a bluff/semi-bluff or not.
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Zangief
Old 09-15-2005, 05:47 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerPatNEU
Min-reraise pre flop is a sign of a strong hand because it just wants more money in the pot, so bigred has that info. Extremely raggy board that doesn't connect with any hand that conventionally will raise 4x BB pre flop tells villain that his AA is probably ahead here. Put those two facts together and it's a pretty safe bet that the push will get called, whether he makes that move on a bluff/semi-bluff or not.
But if a knowledgable opponent is predictable enough to push all-in only when he knows I am beat, calling his all-in is almost never right. On a raggy board like this, me showing strength preflop, and someone pushing all-in, I would expect him to have at least 2 pair unless:
1. He overvalues TPTK.
2. He semi-bluffs/bluffs.
Most good players don't seem to overvalue top pair. So assuming bigred is a good player, I need to know whether he bluffs a lot or not to make this call.
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bigred
Old 09-15-2005, 06:00 PM #9 (permalink)  
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 I knew he would commit with AA. Besides, the min raise screams AA and its ten times easier playing laggy against a person when you know exactly what they have.
LOL OPERATIONS
 
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PokerPatNEU
Old 09-15-2005, 06:34 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zangief
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerPatNEU
Min-reraise pre flop is a sign of a strong hand because it just wants more money in the pot, so bigred has that info. Extremely raggy board that doesn't connect with any hand that conventionally will raise 4x BB pre flop tells villain that his AA is probably ahead here. Put those two facts together and it's a pretty safe bet that the push will get called, whether he makes that move on a bluff/semi-bluff or not.
But if a knowledgable opponent is predictable enough to push all-in only when he knows I am beat, calling his all-in is almost never right. On a raggy board like this, me showing strength preflop, and someone pushing all-in, I would expect him to have at least 2 pair unless:
1. He overvalues TPTK.
2. He semi-bluffs/bluffs.
Most good players don't seem to overvalue top pair. So assuming bigred is a good player, I need to know whether he bluffs a lot or not to make this call.
What two pair on this raggy board would min raise pre flop? It is not over valuing TPTK if there is a good chance that the flop did not improve bigred's hand, it's actually making a good read that TPTK (or in this case his over pair, AA) is good. A good read didn't pay off here though, as bigred made a hugely loose raise pre flop with one of the worst NLHE starting hands .

There is no legitimate hand that raises 4x BB and improves on this flop. Therefore the only things you will find in this hand generally are hands that are unimproved from preflop. AA is the best possible hand pre flop, so villain would call if he has AA. KK would probably call too. Villain basically tipped his hand toward AA/KK with the pre flop min raise.
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Zangief
Old 09-15-2005, 07:11 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerPatNEU
What two pair on this raggy board would min raise pre flop? It is not over valuing TPTK if there is a good chance that the flop did not improve bigred's hand, it's actually making a good read that TPTK (or in this case his over pair, AA) is good. A good read didn't pay off here though, as bigred made a hugely loose raise pre flop with one of the worst NLHE starting hands .
I wasn't trying to say that bigred's opponent was overvaluing TPTK, but that his decision whether to call an all-in bet should be based on whether he believes bigred overvalues TPTK (and would push with it). This may just be a consideration at lower stakes, though - I don't know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerPatNEU
There is no legitimate hand that raises 4x BB and improves on this flop. Therefore the only things you will find in this hand generally are hands that are unimproved from preflop. AA is the best possible hand pre flop, so villain would call if he has AA. KK would probably call too. Villain basically tipped his hand toward AA/KK with the pre flop min raise.
What about 99?
We don't know anything about the position involved. 99 is certainly a legitimate raising hand from the cutoff.
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PokerPatNEU
Old 09-15-2005, 07:16 PM #12 (permalink)  
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I guess some people raise 99 from late position but I don't. Even if that was the case i don't see villain folding because he fears 1 hand out of many possible, including JJ, QQ, KK, AK bluff. I just don't think villain needs a read or to have seen bigred pull this move bluffing to make the call here.
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Zangief
Old 09-15-2005, 07:31 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerPatNEU
I guess some people raise 99 from late position but I don't. Even if that was the case i don't see villain folding because he fears 1 hand out of many possible, including JJ, QQ, KK, AK bluff. I just don't think villain needs a read or to have seen bigred pull this move bluffing to make the call here.
I'm really trying to work on when it is or is not +EV to go all-in with an overpair. I guess this gives me some insight.
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r8ed
Old 09-15-2005, 08:15 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Great play. If you miss the flop and show you raised with garbage, you are getting paid off later with AA or KK most likely.
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bigred
Old 09-15-2005, 09:34 PM #15 (permalink)  
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 Honestly, in late position any hand is a monster preflop when played right.
LOL OPERATIONS
 
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arkana
Old 09-16-2005, 09:40 AM #16 (permalink)  
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If the stacks are deep enough then yes, given that you put 8BB in preflop you would need to outflop him more than 1 out of 12 times and get his stack the times you do hit (if you both have 100 BB stacks). Also two pair is easily counterfeited so you won't win all the pots where you outflop him. How often will you flop two pair\trips? Someone want to do the calculations? I prefer suited connectors\one-gappers as they can hit more flops.

A lot of players just remember the times they destack opponents with these trash hands but they forget all the countless times they had to fold on the flop. They all add up... Just remember the more trash hands you play the smaller the chance is of you holding the best hand on the flop and therefore you need to get your opponents to fold the best hands more often to make up for it, as well as getting max value from the times you do hit your miracle flops.
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