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Vi-Zer0Skill
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05-08-2007, 05:02 AM
Post subject: A-Ko 100NL FR
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#1 (permalink)
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Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,742
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I lead this flop, but i don't know if i should have. His stack size is quite awkward. If he was only $15 deep there would be no problem. The problem i have here is that i am not getting 3:1. I don't think that he is folding any hand in his range, which i think is almost entirely PP's, sometimes A-A/K-K. Is this c/f?
FullTiltPoker Game #2375940634: Table Underhill - $0.50/$1
Hero: ($104.95)
Villan: ($32) No notes, no useful stats
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Hero: [Ks Ac]
Player 1: raises to $2
1 fold
Hero: raises to $13
1 fold
Villan: calls $13 ($19 behind)
5 folds, including Player 1
*** FLOP *** [8c 3d 7h]
Hero: bets $19
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Carroters
Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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If you think he won't fold any PP, which I think too, it's a c/f.
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Vi-Zer0Skill
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Reagan's Kid
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,742
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Quote:
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If you think he won't fold any PP, which I think too, it's a c/f.
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that makes sense. thanks for the feedback. btw i spiked the Ace on the turn when he called with Q-Q on the flop. 
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Carroters
Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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I'm always putting him AI here without stats or a read.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by zook
I'm always putting him AI here without stats or a read.
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QFT, you can't be looking to hit a flop in this spot. You need to put pressure on him to hit a flop. Short-buys have a wide range and will call with AQ-AT and worse.
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cardsman1992
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
Posts: 1,065
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I agree with Zook and Fnord.
However, why such the large reraise PF? I find $8-9 reraise off a minraise does the trick. Him pushing over would be a snapcall no matter how much you reraise him.
His stack is still awkward, though, and I will bet HIS stack on almost every flop.
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Operation Grind For Education:
Current BR: $10080(04/06/2009) BR Goal: $15000--I LOVE RB!!!
End date: 31aug2009
Current stakes: $100/200NL FR
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Ash256
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Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
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As played, it's better to c/c the flop because he's likely to desperation shove with pretty much any 2, whereas if we bet, generally worse hands will fold and better hands will call.
Discuss?
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minSim
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Deventer
Posts: 1,512
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agree ash..
I also agree a preflop 3-bet of 6-8 would have left more room to play on the flop...and could left room for villain to fold some hands.
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Vi-Zer0Skill
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Reagan's Kid
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,742
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Lots of good feedback, thanks everyone.
1). The large reraise was my attempt to deny anyone behind me to get in the pot. I was thinking that a smaller reraise would only give a better price to future callers preflop.
2). I gave the shortstack such a tight range because he cold called the 3bet, because the only time i would usually do that would be with at least a medium pair. But, like Fnord said, it is possible, even likely, that the villan is a fish and may have a lot of non paired hands.
3). Ash's c/c on the flop idea is an interesting one - i hope it gets more discussion. To chime in myself, i would say that i would only use it with stats/notes that suggested that villan was fairly aggro and loose. A more cautious weak shortstack may check behind and improve his hand on the turn for free.
thanks again!
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Carroters
Ambition is fucking great, but you're trying to dig up gold with a rocket launcher and are going to blow the whole lot to shit unless you refine your tools
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cardsman1992
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
Posts: 1,065
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Vi-Zer0Skill
Lots of good feedback, thanks everyone.
1). The large reraise was my attempt to deny anyone behind me to get in the pot. I was thinking that a smaller reraise would only give a better price to future callers preflop.
I don't necessarily mind if I get one more caller, though. Shorty becomes dead money then, and you get to play deepstacked with a great starting hand.
2). I gave the shortstack such a tight range because he cold called the 3bet, because the only time i would usually do that would be with at least a medium pair. But, like Fnord said, it is possible, even likely, that the villan is a fish and may have a lot of non paired hands.
3). Ash's c/c on the flop idea is an interesting one - i hope it gets more discussion. To chime in myself, i would say that i would only use it with stats/notes that suggested that villan was fairly aggro and loose. A more cautious weak shortstack may check behind and improve his hand on the turn for free.
Most of the time when I reraise PF, and then check the flop, they check behind. I don't check the flop often enough to have a great sample, though.
thanks again!
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Operation Grind For Education:
Current BR: $10080(04/06/2009) BR Goal: $15000--I LOVE RB!!!
End date: 31aug2009
Current stakes: $100/200NL FR
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,333
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ash256
As played, it's better to c/c the flop because he's likely to desperation shove with pretty much any 2, whereas if we bet, generally worse hands will fold and better hands will call.
Discuss?
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Ok, we check/call the flop, now what if he checks behind?
Also, sometimes he will actually fold a better hand to our push. Bad players make bad folds too sometimes.
Finally, we're not holding even as comanding of a position as we would be with something like top pair. When we're good giving a free card is a big pot disaster.
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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You got a short stack to put almost half his money in before the flop, and you have AK. Folding is out of the question now (unless the flop is something like T98 single-suited where you don't have that suit). Just shove the rest in now.
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Ash256
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 1,760
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ash256
As played, it's better to c/c the flop because he's likely to desperation shove with pretty much any 2, whereas if we bet, generally worse hands will fold and better hands will call.
Discuss?
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Ok, we check/call the flop, now what if he checks behind?
Also, sometimes he will actually fold a better hand to our push. Bad players make bad folds too sometimes. |
True, but sometimes he shoves shite...
I see what you mean though, but I feel that Battle Of Sometimes is a close one.. I think what might be relevant though is that all the air he pushes normally has 3-6 outs at least, which may tip it in pushing's favour.
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