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takesix
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12-06-2006, 05:58 PM
Post subject: KK, Why are there so many callers?
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 323
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First: Flop re-raise enough?
Second: Should I just shove the flop? A $10 bet commits me anyway (or is this a leak?), and any single caller gives massive odds to the people behind.
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
Button ($25.80)
SB ($10.25)
Hero ($25)
UTG ($25)
UTG+1 ($11.75)
MP1 ($33.70)
MP2 ($14.20)
CO ($66.40)
Preflop: Hero is BB with K , K .
UTG raises to $0.75, UTG+1 calls $0.75, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.75, 1 fold, Button calls $0.75, 1 fold, Hero raises to $3.5, UTG calls $2.75, UTG+1 calls $2.75, MP2 calls $2.75, Button calls $2.75.
Flop: ($17.60) 9 , 5 , 4 (5 players)
Hero ???
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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I re-raise a little more to $4 or $4.50, but $3.5o isn't bad. Push flop.
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seoul_child1
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 176
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not to be too harsh, but with 4 pre-flop callers of a min.-raise $.75 i re-raise to some insane amt., to really limit the field and also to protect ur hand. $3.50 is too little for this situation... a re-raise to $7-$8 would've been much more appropriate! the reason i say raise so much higher is because i tend to find these donks will call a decent re-raise like ($3.50) if majority of the other players decide to call, so with a hefty raise u really put them to the test and from there u can make better judgement calls!!
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nutsinho
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: flattin ur 4bets, makin u tilt
Posts: 3,280
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4.50 pre, shove flop as played
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My bankroll is the amount of money I would spend or lose before I got a job. It is calculated by adding my net worth to whatever I can borrow.
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swiggidy
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Waiting in the shadows ...
Posts: 3,777
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by seoul_child1
a re-raise to $7-$8 would've been much more appropriate! the reason i say raise so much higher is because i want to blow everyone out of the pot and avoid judgement calls!!
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FYP
$3.50 is a shade short. $4.50 would give the first player 2:1 odds.
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(\__/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
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Warpe
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
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I make it $5 preflop 'cause I like to save keystrokes. Easy shove on flop.
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AHiltz
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Coldbrook, NS
Posts: 1,589
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Quote:
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a re-raise to $7-$8 would've been much LESS appropriate!
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Fixed
So, you're telling me that you're putting in ~1/3 a buying against a 3x raiser with 2 calls? Been a while since I played 25NL, but there are VERY few people that I saw that would be stunned enough to call that large of a raise without just shoving, and they wouldn't do that without AA/KK.
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kingnat
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Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 827
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by AHiltz
Been a while since I played 25NL, but there are VERY few people that I saw that would be stunned enough to call that large of a raise without just shoving, and they wouldn't do that without AA/KK.
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It's been too long since you played 25NL..... add, QQ, JJ, AK, AQs, maybe AJ,TT... and hell likely a whole ton more too sc's, picture cards... et al
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So you click their picture and then you get their money?
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LeFou
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12-07-2006, 02:17 PM
Post subject: Re: KK, Why are there so many callers?
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#9 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by takesix
Why are there so many callers?
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One for each Ace! Shove time!
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seoul_child1
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 176
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by AHiltz
Quote:
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a re-raise to $7-$8 would've been much LESS appropriate!
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Fixed
So, you're telling me that you're putting in ~1/3 a buying against a 3x raiser with 2 calls? Been a while since I played 25NL, but there are VERY few people that I saw that would be stunned enough to call that large of a raise without just shoving, and they wouldn't do that without AA/KK. |
You would be extremely surprised to see who would call that huge re-raise of $7-8 like i stated b4 and with what, also there was 4 callers prior to him, of that 3x raise!!! I don't know about you but KK against 4 people is -EV. I have been messing around building up a micro-roll in (25NL) and have had much experience running into morons that call these type of raises with utter junk, just to get involved in a Big Pot!!
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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You'd really shove this flop? This is something I don't get at all. Isn't it likely that at least some of the other players have low/mid PPs? KK is pretty good here but there's a good chance you're drawing to 2 outs but you won't actually KNOW this until it's too late because you're OOP.
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by seoul_child1
I don't know about you but KK against 4 people is has the second most EV of any hand.
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FYP. Don't blow people out of the pot pre-flop with premium hands. Give them incorrect odds to call and be happy when they do.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by biondino
You'd really shove this flop? This is something I don't get at all. Isn't it likely that at least some of the other players have low/mid PPs? KK is pretty good here but there's a good chance you're drawing to 2 outs but you won't actually KNOW this until it's too late because you're OOP
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You can't be scared of a set here because that's the least likely scenario and it's going to be impossible to distinguish one from QQ-TT anyway. I like a shove because with the size of the pot and the remaining stacks, it's likely to get at least one or two calls and it sets the worst price for a draw.
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LeFou
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 2,361
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Yeah, If we think 2 opps have pp in the range 22-99, each of them has a 37% of having a set here...
But I think you have to bet at least $10 and I can't see you folding however the action comes back. I feel like a shove has a better chance of getting a dumb call from TT-QQ, or even weaker hands trying to pick off a bluff.
..
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takesix
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 323
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For the results oriented: Did shove, 1 caller, had TT, turn/river bricks so i scoop 
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ShowMeAtlas
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Flush
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 393
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A lot of post fixing going on here
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seoul_child1
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Straight
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 176
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ShowMeAtlas
A lot of post fixing going on here |
lol  ... i felt like arguing but it wasn't worth it.. Takesix: glad the best of scenarios worked out for u in ur favor!!!
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mcatdog
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: St. Louis
Posts: 3,654
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by seoul_child1
KK against 4 people is -EV.
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no it's not
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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does anybody shove preflop at these stakes?
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takesix
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Flush
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 323
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Miffed22001
does anybody shove preflop at these stakes?
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I've seen little reason to do so since I moved back up. Only two reasons for this:
1) Obv, there could be a mega donk who who call his 77 or whatever. But there are rather few of these.
2) Less likely, though possible, is 1-3 mega donks who are driving the whole table batty with their stupidity and (likely) suckouts. So, the whole table, smelling blood, starts making -EV plays, rationalizing it by saying "well, AQo is ahead of their range", and other players notice less than solid plays so THEY want to get in on the dead money, and yeah, only in that scenario would I just shove preflop.
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