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KK w/a small stack outflopped

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metaxy6

03-16-2006, 07:14 AM Post subject: KK w/a small stack outflopped

#1 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 328

I bought in short. This is my 2nd orbit, and the only info I have is that the villian slow played top set w/ the PFR behind him on the button in the first orbit.

Absolute Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $9.55
UTG+1: $5.45
CO: $27.40
Button: $9.70
Hero: $14.75
BB: $55.40

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is SB with K

2 folds, CO calls $0.25, Button folds, Hero raises to $1.25, BB folds, CO calls $1.

Flop: 9

($2.75, 2 players)
Hero bets $1.75, CO raises to $3.5, Hero raises to $9.75, CO raises to $19.5, Hero calls all-in $3.75.
Uncalled bets: $6 returned to CO.

Turn: 2

($29.75, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $29.75)

River: A

($29.75, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $29.75)

Results:
Final pot: $29.75
CO Shows 3h 3d
Hero Shows Ks Kd

The best 'that guy' comment after this hand would have been to type
"I knew you had a set." That flop raise is at least 80% set, and more when he puts me AI. Don't think a9 is playing that way, so I'm hoping that he saw my stack and wanted to use his flush draw to push me out.

With effective stacks, I fold to his push.
Here, I thought that folding would be announcing that I can be pushed around (by a min raise at that) and that my $$ is up for grabs. I'd actually rather tank the buy-in than send that message. No way I'm just calling. I'm obviously stuck after the re-raise.
Good stand or just real lucky?

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Pelion

03-16-2006, 11:49 AM Post subject: Re: KK w/a small stack outflopped

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 3,206

Quote:

Originally Posted by metaxy6

I'd actually rather tank the buy-in than send that message.

That doesnt make sense in an online game. Fold and change tables if youre worried about your image.

I dont think id be able to put him on exactly a set with no reads and only 1 minraise though.

gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?

metaxy6

03-16-2006, 01:28 PM Post subject: Re: KK w/a small stack outflopped

#3 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: May 2005

Posts: 328

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelion

That doesnt make sense in an online game. Fold and change tables if youre worried about your image.

I'm not sending the message that any min raise will push me out of a hand where I showed strength - especially not on the very first hand I get involved in; if I do that, switching tables won't help...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelion

I dont think id be able to put him on exactly a set with no reads and only 1 minraise though.

I don't know if it's as sure as I said that he flopped a set. But, he didn't seem like a moron, and a raise from the blind was the 1st $ I'd voluntarily put in the middle...
Even if you adjust upwards the chances of the flush draw, and include small % of PF passive TT-JJ, as well as A9 (w/ As) -
I still think he has set more than 50% of the time here.

The problem is that he min raised me. Folding to a min raise sucks, and just calling seems very very lame, since I'm lost on the turn, spade or no spade.
So, that leaves re-raise. And any re-raise effectively commits enough of my stack that the all-in is just a formality.
I don't think the backdoor draw (minus any board pairing spade, of course) +2 kings justifies the play mathematically.
But, I also don't think my play was horrible at any step of the way.

Is that just short stacks poker??

gabe

03-16-2006, 04:32 PM

#4 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: trying to live

Posts: 7,964

gabe is an unknown quantity at this point

since you bought in short you can't fold an overpair preflop on this non threatening board

dpe8598

03-16-2006, 05:35 PM

#5 (permalink)

Flush

Join Date: Mar 2006

Posts: 261

First, you CAN fold if you believe you are beat. Any decent player is going to be more worried if he thinks you were strong, but folded to a better hand. Honestly, your table image just isn't that important at these limits.

Second, you COULD have just called him down here. If you believe that he may have a set, but you want to find out, just call him down. Sure he might put you all in, but then again he might not and you may save a few bucks. In general, I say define your hand w/ a reraise, but you are right. If you reraise you can't fold anyway, so why define the hand? Just call him down.

bdawg56kg

03-16-2006, 06:24 PM

#6 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Oct 2004

Location: Honolulu

Posts: 1,201

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpe8598

Unless you know this guy is a total rock and doesn't raise without the nuts or close to it, you are never folding KK here. Ever. That's one of the advantages of buying in short, you don't have tough decisions with overpairs and TPTK type hands. You get it all in on the flop everytime, and the rest is history.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dpe8598

Second, you COULD have just called him down here. If you believe that he may have a set, but you want to find out, just call him down. Sure he might put you all in, but then again he might not and you may save a few bucks. In general, I say define your hand w/ a reraise, but you are right. If you reraise you can't fold anyway, so why define the hand? Just call him down.

Calling down here just sucks. If you were 100BB's or deeper, then your argument has more merit. Any card that comes off will make your hand "worse" (except for the 2 remaining kings), and give your opponent a free chance to suck out on you if you are ahead. The only reason to call down here is if you have a good read your opponent is a bluffing machine, and want him to continue. Other than that this hand is 100% standard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by metaxy6

Is that just short stacks poker??

Yes.

Fnord

03-16-2006, 06:52 PM

#7 (permalink)

Moderator

Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,334

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

since you bought in short you can't fold an overpair on this non threatening board

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

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KK w/a small stack outflopped

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