|
badgers
|
04-09-2008, 03:13 PM
Post subject: KK vs. a possible AA 100nl
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
|
|
Opp was a 5/5 nit over 60 hands so I had a no 4bet idea. If I don't 4bet I can keep the worse hands like QQ (JJ) that may be in his range so I can play profitably post-flop. I thought if I 4-bet I basically screw myself vs. AA but with this line I can hopefully get more out of QQ. Thoughts?
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)
UTG+1 ($22.35)
MP1 ($34.90)
MP2 ($22.90)
MP3 ($18.50)
CO ($106.50)
Button ($99.20)
SB ($29.50)
BB ($85.70)
Hero ($126.75)
Preflop: Hero is UTG with K , K .
Hero raises to $4, 4 folds, CO raises to $12, 3 folds, Hero calls $8.
Flop: ($25.50) 6, 9 , 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $16, Hero calls $16.
Turn: ($57.50) 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $35, Hero raises to $98.75
|
3k post - Return of the blog!
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
AHiltz
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Coldbrook, NS
Posts: 1,589
|
|
In my experience vs Nits, they will not give you credit for a 6 here since you raise UTG. So, with that board, they will call the shove with the exact same hands that they will call a raise/shove with preflop.
Also, since you are OOP, I think you need to 4bet this pre.
|
|
|
|
badgers
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
|
|
I don't want him to fold I want him to call my shove with QQ when he would have folded preflop.
|
3k post - Return of the blog!
|
|
badgers
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
|
|
Let me put it this way, if I 4bet pre I think the vast majority of this time I narrow his range down to AA which is LAME. This way I can get AK to cbet (though I'll obv be pissed if an A flops), and occassionally stack QQ or even JJ which I don't think he'd 3bet often anyway. I believe ALL of those hands fold to a 4bet.
|
3k post - Return of the blog!
|
|
martindcx1e
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
|
|
if you are going to just call the 3bet then c/shove this flop. QQ will not fold.
|
|
Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
|
|
Muzzard
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Cheshire, UK
Posts: 1,843
|
|
IMO this is good. I'm assuming you'd felt this pre anyway? If so,you get most value this way from lesser hands JJ/QQ etc and your stacking off to AA anyway whatever happens.
|
|
|
|
pgil
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,103
|
|
check-shove flop looks good here. QQ will call, AK may call. JJ is a toss-up as to whether it will call or not. probably yes.
If you think there are more AK's in his range than QQ/JJ, then maybe CRAI on turn as played, but that also assumes that he 2barrels AK a lot.
|
|
"If you can't say f*ck, you can't say f*ck the government" - Lenny Bruce
|
|
STHollywood
|
|
3-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 107
|
|
I like it as played because it leaves room for JJ to call the shove and all the other hands that would have called anyway. If he does have AA sobeit, that sucks but you are going into this hand wanting to get a stack off of someone
|
|
ISF while watching me play: "Wow, you're really butchering this."
|
|
d0zer
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,523
|
|
I like.
This has become fairly standard for me recently with KK/AA & so far I think I'm definitely getting more value outta the weaker hands in villain's range.
|
|
|
|
Miffed22001
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
|
|
You need a plan for post flop based on the preflop action.
For me versus this guy i 4bet and fold losing 30-35 and feel good.
however if hes 3betting QQ i call and get it in on ANY flop even ace high as i doubt he 3bets AK and therefore if hes 3betting KK we can steal a split pot post flop on occasion
|
|
|
|
martindcx1e
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
You need a plan for post flop based on the preflop action.
For me versus this guy i 4bet and fold losing 30-35 and feel good.
|
if 4bet just gets called what are you doing on the flop (not just this flop but other flops as well)?
|
|
Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
|
|
kmind
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Not Giving In
Posts: 4,240
|
|
I agree with all posts, especially miffed's.
|
|
|
|
badgers
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Spewing
Posts: 3,372
|
|
miffed dont you think that 4betting turns our hand into a bluff and yes i am saying that with a straight face.
|
3k post - Return of the blog!
|
|
elipsesjeff
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 4,900
|
|
OP played his hand well.
|
Check out my videos at Grinderschool.com
More Full Ring NLHE Cash videos than ANY other poker training site. Training starts at $10/month.
|
|
BankItDrew
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
|
|
love the way KK played this hand
|
Girlfriend: Why are the werewolves more important than living life?!
Girlfriend: Are you on the forums doing the werewolves again?
Girlfriend: Soo... you forgot to run that errand, but you had time to werewolf? Wtf?
|
|
pokerfan
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: NS, Canada
Posts: 1,736
|
|
i dont really like your c/c play on the flop. i think c/ shove is the best line on the flop cuz his bet sizing was repping big over pairs and our line looked more like AJs/AQs/AKs flush bluffing line. Also, he wouldnt go anywhere when you shove this low cards flop in my experience. Keep it in mind that any ace or flush cards coming out on the turn will kill actions, dude. just shove over on flop!
|
|
|
|
Miffed22001
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by badgers
miffed dont you think that 4betting turns our hand into a bluff and yes i am saying that with a straight face.
|
your answer to this question 'is my opponent dumb enough to call a 4bet with QQ and stack off'
Id have said for most ok stars players the answer is no. Plus i havent seen a 4bet cold called yet on stars (maybe because my sample size is small)
Your other option is to min4bet and fold to a push, but then QQ/AK may very well cal if opponents are 3betting you with those.
Badgers:
Id like to see an alternative to not stacking off after the flop if you are 3bet here and just cold call if you say 4betting turns our hand into a bluff.
if you 4bet you can fold and feel 'good' that your opponent is too straight forward to pushover a 4bet without the nuts, hence we dont have to stack off post flop versus suspected but not confirmed AA
|
|
|
|
BankItDrew
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by pokerfan
i dont really like your c/c play on the flop. i think c/ shove is the best line on the flop cuz his bet sizing was repping big over pairs and our line looked more like AJs/AQs/AKs flush bluffing line. Also, he wouldnt go anywhere when you shove this low cards flop in my experience. Keep it in mind that any ace or flush cards coming out on the turn will kill actions, dude. just shove over on flop!
|
why not?
First, he's getting the max out of any pair <KK
secondly, villain only has 3 outs when holding an ace
thirdly, this is a typical WB/WA hand where there is zero need for ultra aggression
|
|
|
|
martindcx1e
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,614
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by BankItDrew
thirdly, this is a typical WB/WA hand where there is zero need for ultra aggression
|
this isn't the typical WA/WB scenario bc there are worse hands that call a raise.
|
|
Wikipedia is the best thing ever. Anyone in the world can write anything they want about any subject. So you know you are getting the best possible information.
|
|
BankItDrew
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Losing Prop Bets
Posts: 2,789
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by martindcx1e
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by BankItDrew
thirdly, this is a typical WB/WA hand where there is zero need for ultra aggression
|
this isn't the typical WA/WB scenario bc there are worse hands that call a raise. |
Just because a hand is way behind, doesn't mean this isn't a great opportunity to get in as many chips as possible. quite often the +EV play is to slow play in this sitch.
|
|
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
Linear Mode
