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KK vs 3 Tags 200nl

  
 
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elipsesjeff
Old 01-15-2009, 10:35 PM     Post subject: KK vs 3 Tags 200nl #1 (permalink)  
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 UTG: 14/10 through 4k hands and opens standard ~9% from this position
MP2: 15/11 through 2k hands and cold calls 3-4 % in this spot
CO: Also Reg but 15/13 through only 700 hands

Timing reads:

-MP2 took an extreme amount of time before calling the turn and it seemed unusual for such a standard spot; it almost seems like he was either 1) debating on folding 99/55 (would be standard fold for me) or 2) debating on raising set (which would be tough for me too)



No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (9 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop

Button ($367.30)
SB ($41)
BB ($200)
UTG ($214.70)
UTG+1 ($113)
Hero (MP1) ($206)
MP2 ($295)
MP3 ($200)
CO ($203)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K, K
UTG raises $8, 1 fold, Hero calls $8, MP2 calls $8, 1 fold, CO calls $8, 3 folds

Flop: ($35) 8, 3, 6 (4 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO checks

Turn: ($35) 7 (4 players)
UTG bets $20, Hero calls $20, MP2 calls $20, 1 fold

River: ($95) 8 (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks, MP2 bets $88, 1 fold, Hero folds

Total pot: $95

Obv I save myself some trouble by 3betting preflop but that didn't seem like that great of an option although it might be the lessor of 2 evils in this spot.


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bigspenda73
Old 01-15-2009, 10:51 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 I hope I don't get blamed for this one



I don't get the flop check
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elipsesjeff
Old 01-15-2009, 10:58 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 Hehe, I checked the flop because I don't exactly see my bet to have too much value against the regs. If I'm ahead, I don't expect to get sucked out on as I'm worried about the Ace and when my opponents hit a 2 outer. Both of which get at most 1 street of value out of me before alarm bells go off (like MP2 overcalling the turn).

I might be wrong though, but i also see myself bet/fold everything in my range here that isn't a set and my hand would be face up (which I guess is the #1 reason i didn't bet).


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Sir Pawnalot
Old 01-15-2009, 11:41 PM #4 (permalink)  
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daven
Old 01-16-2009, 12:46 AM     Post subject: Re: KK vs 3 Tags 200nl #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
Obv I save myself some trouble by 3betting preflop but that didn't seem like that great of an option
i don't understand. 3-bet pre.

as played I don't mind the flop check, but I'd definitely be raising the turn.

I block river 2/3 pot
don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
allin, reload, repeat

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Deanglow
Old 01-16-2009, 12:53 AM #6 (permalink)  
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 looks like some loose-ish players at the table so 3betting preflop might be a bit better. bet the flop though
 
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nutsinho
Old 01-16-2009, 05:20 AM #7 (permalink)  
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 not betting the flop seems incredibly bad.
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bigspenda73
Old 01-16-2009, 05:43 AM #8 (permalink)  
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 I was trying to find some cool isf/nutsinho way of saying why having KK is so cool here.

Basically being able to have more big-strength made hands on the flop relative to the times we have air/draws should help us be a lot harder to play against.
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aka_red
Old 01-16-2009, 06:42 AM #9 (permalink)  
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this whole 3bet pre shit is really annoying. this guy has an idea of what he is doing and intentionally did not 3bet pre. knock it the fuck off. he obviously chose not to 3bet and if he 3bets it completely changes the hand to where it makes it difficult to comment on based on this hand.

oh yeah and lol bet flop. how are you not getting value from worse?
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elipsesjeff
Old 01-16-2009, 10:58 AM #10 (permalink)  
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 Ok, thanks for the replies. So it looks like the optimal line would be to bet the flop in this spot. I'm pretty much check/calling any turn then check/folding the river if he fires two barrels? Feels pretty weak but I can't think of a better way right now.

Its funny, I understand the reasoning behind flatting KK here preflop but I feel like I play it like shit postflop whenever I do.

Edit: about the 3betting, I said it would make it easier to play if I 3bet preflop but I don't think that's the best way to play it in our spot. I couldn't see myself having much of a bluff, let alone wide value 3bet range in this spot. I have no idea if that's correct tho.


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bigspenda73
Old 01-16-2009, 09:50 PM #11 (permalink)  
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 on this flop you effectively have bottom set once UTG checks after you flat KK PF
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elipsesjeff
Old 01-16-2009, 11:00 PM #12 (permalink)  
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 Kind of, other than the fact we lose to bottom set and when we get it AI on this flop bottom set isn't going to be good often.


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bigspenda73
Old 01-16-2009, 11:36 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elipsesjeff
when we get it AI on this flop bottom set isn't going to be good often.
lulz fuck full-ring
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BankItDrew
Old 01-17-2009, 02:34 AM     Post subject: Top set, oop, monotone board, cbet size? #14 (permalink)  
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 You did it to yourself IMO

Be more aggro


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