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KK on the river at 25NL

  
 
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Krieg1984
Old 04-06-2006, 06:30 AM     Post subject: KK on the river at 25NL #1 (permalink)  
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Villian is a 45/10 but other than that I don't have any solid reads on him. Table has been fairly loose as well (typical 25NL specs.)

I checked behind on the flop because in most KK situations I think this is optimal when an ace flops (refer to Gabe's nice thread on the subject) but of course I wasn't really paying attention to the clubs.

Anyway I'm not uncomfortable with the way I played this hand; I like to keep the pot small when I don't know where I stand. However any criticisms are welcomed. Any guesses as to what Villian's possible holdings are? And what should Hero do on the river?

Thanks.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Hero ($41.65)
Button ($18)
SB ($4.30)
BB ($27.78)
UTG ($18.35)

Preflop: Hero is MP with K, K. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.75, 2 folds, BB calls $0.50.

Flop: ($1.60) 4, J, A (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($1.60) 5 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1, BB calls $1.

River: ($3.60) 2 (2 players)
BB bets $3, Hero ???
Lukie: "Yo Fnord I was playing omaha earlier"
Lukie: "I got dealt quads"
Lukie: "but everyone folded to my raise "
Lukie: "I was going to pwn everyone"
Fnord: "Gotta slowplay them big hands man..."
 
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freechus9
Old 04-06-2006, 06:35 AM #2 (permalink)  
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Ok. First, you have to raise more preflop. I know you want callers with KK, but raising it 2xBB isn't going to cut it. Make it AT LEAST 1.25 to go. Next, you have to c-bet this flop. BB's check signals weakness, and you can rep the A on the flop. If you get raised, you can toss. As played, the bet on the turn is a bit weak. If you are still in the hand, pot the turn, and if he calls you can check/fold the river. As played, fold the river.
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Krieg1984
Old 04-06-2006, 07:56 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freechus9
Ok. First, you have to raise more preflop. I know you want callers with KK, but raising it 2xBB isn't going to cut it. Make it AT LEAST 1.25 to go. Next, you have to c-bet this flop. BB's check signals weakness, and you can rep the A on the flop. If you get raised, you can toss. As played, the bet on the turn is a bit weak. If you are still in the hand, pot the turn, and if he calls you can check/fold the river. As played, fold the river.
First of all I raised 3xBB, not 2. Usually I raise 4 in EP-MP and 3 in MP-LP; sometimes I raise 5 from any position. I don't like to raise 6+ in most situations because it announces that I have a big hand. I would have to start raising a lot of marginal hands 6bb in order to make this play not transparent.... and I don't like those implications.

Secondly, in regards to cbetting this flop in this situation... http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-21766.htm

Yes that is the SNG forum. And yes Gabe's example doesn't have a flush draw on the flop like in my HH. But I think the basic concept still applies. Anyone else think so?

The reason I played this "weakly" is because I'm not looking to "rep" anything. I have a hand, but it's vulnerable. I'd rather get to showdown cheaply.

Thanks for the feedback though.
Lukie: "Yo Fnord I was playing omaha earlier"
Lukie: "I got dealt quads"
Lukie: "but everyone folded to my raise "
Lukie: "I was going to pwn everyone"
Fnord: "Gotta slowplay them big hands man..."
 
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AHiltz
Old 04-06-2006, 12:02 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
The reason I played this "weakly" is because I'm not looking to "rep" anything. I have a hand, but it's vulnerable. I'd rather get to showdown cheaply.
Um, no. You bet the turn. How is that seeing a showdown cheaply???
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Krieg1984
Old 04-06-2006, 08:05 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHiltz
Quote:
The reason I played this "weakly" is because I'm not looking to "rep" anything. I have a hand, but it's vulnerable. I'd rather get to showdown cheaply.
Um, no. You bet the turn. How is that seeing a showdown cheaply???
Oooooo you are right.

I think I just realized a leak in my game... thanks AHiltz!
Lukie: "Yo Fnord I was playing omaha earlier"
Lukie: "I got dealt quads"
Lukie: "but everyone folded to my raise "
Lukie: "I was going to pwn everyone"
Fnord: "Gotta slowplay them big hands man..."
 
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mcatdog
Old 04-06-2006, 08:16 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freechus9
Next, you have to c-bet this flop. BB's check signals weakness, and you can rep the A on the flop.
This is not good advice. Representing the ace doesn't accomplish anything, you're only getting called by hands that beat you. It's a better idea to check behind and induce a bluff from hands that you're crushing.

In a tougher game, I guess it might be a good idea to bet this flop some of the time to mix it up. But in 25NL, I'd check behind here 100% of the time.

OP played this hand very well assuming that he folded the river. Betting the turn is good because a lot of hands will call, that you're ahead of.
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Fnord
Old 04-06-2006, 08:58 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AHiltz
Quote:
The reason I played this "weakly" is because I'm not looking to "rep" anything. I have a hand, but it's vulnerable. I'd rather get to showdown cheaply.
Um, no. You bet the turn. How is that seeing a showdown cheaply???
I do this all the time against weak players. It gives him fold equity and quite often the river is check, check. Except when it doesn't go check, check and this happens. Can't say I really have an answer here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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WildBobAA
Old 04-06-2006, 09:22 PM #8 (permalink)  
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If you bet the flop, you don't have to play this guessing game on the river.
 
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Fnord
Old 04-06-2006, 09:23 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildBobAA
If you bet the flop, you don't have to play this guessing game on the river.
HUH?!?!?

check, bet, call
check, check
bet, fold
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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WildBobAA
Old 04-06-2006, 09:38 PM #10 (permalink)  
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1. check, check, check - I think this is the best line, especially with the flush card hitting on the turn. If you check the turn here, you're probably get a showdown for $1. (or nothing)
2. bet, check/fold - Betting the flop, he either folds or calls, if he calls, you can put him on an A or a flush draw and shutdown, especially after the flush card hits.
3. check, bet, call - I don't think this is a bad line but I just think c/c/c is better.
 
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Fnord
Old 04-06-2006, 09:42 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildBobAA
1. check, check, check - I think this is the best line, especially with the flush card hitting on the turn. If you check the turn here, you're probably get a showdown for $1. (or nothing)
2. bet, check/fold - Betting the flop, he either folds or calls, if he calls, you can put him on an A or a flush draw and shutdown, especially after the flush card hits.
3. check, bet, call - I don't think this is a bad line but I just think c/c/c is better.
You misread my post

flop
turn
river
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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Krieg1984
Old 04-07-2006, 02:59 AM #12 (permalink)  
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BTW I reraised all-in on the river...


















JK I folded. :P
Lukie: "Yo Fnord I was playing omaha earlier"
Lukie: "I got dealt quads"
Lukie: "but everyone folded to my raise "
Lukie: "I was going to pwn everyone"
Fnord: "Gotta slowplay them big hands man..."
 
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