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KK overpair on paired flop

  
 
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Irisheyes
Old 12-02-2005, 10:08 PM     Post subject: KK overpair on paired flop #1 (permalink)  
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No info on gulvbass
Other guy is a fish but I’m not worried about him.

Hand #144632801 at table: Table TH 447
Started: Fri Dec 02 22:17:17 2005

henzo is at seat 1 with 23.15
unchas is at seat 2 with 20.50
Money4Drug is at seat 3 with 47.00
PHOWOM is at seat 4 with 6.52
MRlefty is at seat 5 with 21.72
esen27 is at seat 6 with 4.30
cescool is at seat 7 with 24.20
Bink80 is at seat 8 with 18.03
Nyanyo is at seat 9 with 42.25
gulvbass is at seat 10 with 102.80

cescool posts the large blind 0.50
esen27 posts the small blind 0.25

Money4Drug: Kd, Kh

Pre-flop:

Bink80: Raise 1.00
Nyanyo: Fold
gulvbass: Call 1.00
henzo: Fold
unchas: Call 1.00
Money4Drug: Raise 4.00
PHOWOM: Fold
MRlefty: Fold
esen27: Call 4.00
cescool: Fold
Bink80: Call 4.00
gulvbass: Call 4.00
unchas: Fold

Pot: $16
Flop (Board: Jd, Jh, 9h):

esen27: All in
Bink80: Fold
gulvbass: Raise 11.60
Money4Drug: ??

Can you comfortably just straight fold this?
If not how do you proceed?
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Fnord
Old 12-02-2005, 10:20 PM #2 (permalink)  
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o The paird card is in the broadway range
o Draw heavy board
o Opponent with deep money
o The all-in and the other lemmings somewhat are protecting you from bluffs.

I think he's semi-bluffing, but I don't have a problem dumping this.

If you want to continue, then the play is to call the flop, raise a blank turn and dump to a bad turn card.

With less money behind, I'm sticking it all in there.
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Vrax
Old 12-03-2005, 12:02 AM #3 (permalink)  
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With multiple callers of your reraise, the pot escalated too much and you are either way behind (if someone has jack), small favorite (if they draw to straight) and big favourite if the bettor has TT-QQ or worse. Does the bettor (and $11.60 is 22BB - quite a big bet) is capable of betting into raiser with only a pair? If answer is NO, then dump your kings.

My guess is, you folded and saw jack in showdown.

Instead of rerasing only 4.00 I would either push or reraised huge (like 30BB) with the intention of pushing the non-ace flop. Destroy the implied odds for small pocket pairs - stacks are too deep.
"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy
 
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m3laNcholy
Old 12-03-2005, 12:27 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrax
Instead of rerasing only 4.00 I would either push or reraised huge (like 30BB) with the intention of pushing the non-ace flop. Destroy the implied odds for small pocket pairs - stacks are too deep.
You are joking right?
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Miffed22001
Old 12-03-2005, 01:08 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 My reraise is at least 3x the pot here. Noone sees this flop for cheap. Id possibly push the flop reagrdless so long as no ace. If he called with a jack holding hand then the only one i would want to see is JJ and quads anything else imo is bad play by the opp. That flop shudnt be a danger to you unless soemone has JJ or 99
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Vrax
Old 12-03-2005, 02:45 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m3laNcholy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vrax
Instead of rerasing only 4.00 I would either push or reraised huge (like 30BB) with the intention of pushing the non-ace flop. Destroy the implied odds for small pocket pairs - stacks are too deep.
You are joking right?
Oops sorry Irisheyes, I didnt notice you switched to $50 and UTG just minraised, I thought that player in EP made standard 4BB raise not minraise.

My bad....

But I still would reraise big here, KK is made hand but still vulnerable, at least the size of the pot,even more, 2x-3x like Miffed suggested. 1 caller is almost guaranteed, 3 callers are bad.

I play my pocket kings superfast, especially when someone is willing to demonstrate some strength (it can be as small as minraise but it's still some kind of strength). Flop is most critical moment for big pocket pairs, and it should be EXPENSIVE to see it.

Unless one want to play overpair out of position on 2 broadway flop with flushdraw in big, multiway pot - well count me off that crap please...I'd prefer 1 opponent, similar size of the pot (because of bigger reraise) and being in position.

Those players on Sportingbet like to juice the pot and minraise with pocket pair hoping they will be put on "monster" and get just multiple calls. No way I'm reraising this just 1/2 pot. Full pot or more. No joke.
"How could I call that bet? How could you MAKE that bet? It's poker not solitaire. " - that Gus Bronson guy
 
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bdawg56kg
Old 12-03-2005, 03:01 AM #7 (permalink)  
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I would fold here. I think it's likely gulvbass has a jack, and the way it looks, you are probably going to have to play for stacks if you want to stay in. It hurts to fold this, but in the end you only invested $4. Without a read on gulvbass, I would give him the benefit of the doubt here, and definitely make a note at what hand he shows down.

Another line you could use is just to call gulvbass's bet like Fnord said. Your smooth call should tell gulvbass that you have a hand, most likely an overpair, so I don't think he bets the turn without a jack, since the sidepot is not very big. The downside is that if he comes out firing on the turn you have little choice but to fold, since any decent sized bet commits the rest of your stack.
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Irisheyes
Old 12-03-2005, 03:41 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Preflop should have been a bigger raise I agree. I wasn't sure how the table was going to react to a reraise. I didn't expect or particularly want 4 callers. Table was full of fish.

I think the right play was to call and play the turn card.

The way it happened I raised the flop, he pushed and I folded with 2/5 my stack left. I guess calling was a cheaper way to gain the same info.

Ah well, lesson learned.

Thanks guys.
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Fnord
Old 12-03-2005, 04:07 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iRICHeyes
The way it happened I raised the flop, he pushed and I folded with 2/5 my stack left. I guess calling was a cheaper way to gain the same info.
Putting in half of your stack on a street, then folding is rarely a good idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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m3laNcholy
Old 12-03-2005, 05:39 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fnord
Putting in half of your stack on a street, then folding is rarely a good idea.
I second that...
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