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KK OOP when flush hits - 50nl

  
 
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caddie444
Old 06-01-2010, 05:28 AM     Post subject: KK OOP when flush hits - 50nl #1 (permalink)  
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 Villain is timmerlmao who runs 18/12 with a 1% 3Bet and a 2.9 aggression factor.

He could easily still have Qx's in his range, but he also has AA, flushes, and sets as well... struggling with a turn line because b/fing is gross due to stack sizes... should I be c-betting closer to pot to set up for an easier turn shovel?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG+1 ($47.75)
Hero (MP1) ($50)
MP2 ($50.25)
CO ($56.55)
Button ($51.75)
SB ($97.25)
BB ($39.50)
UTG ($50)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with ,
1 fold, UTG+1 bets $1, Hero raises to $4, 2 folds, Button calls $4, 3 folds

Flop: ($9.75) , , (2 players)
Hero bets $6, Button calls $6

Turn: ($21.75) (2 players)
Hero ??? ($40 eff stacks)


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aka_red
Old 06-02-2010, 01:04 AM #2 (permalink)  
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you haven't gotten any replies because you have given us 0 relevant information.
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caddie444
Old 06-02-2010, 03:22 AM #3 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reDZill4 View Post
you haven't gotten any replies because you have given us 0 relevant information.
Well this hand came up in my weekly session review and I know I have notes on him but I don't know how (or if its even possible) to retrieve them from HEM or anywhere else...

I do have some hands on him where he opened EP with SP's-MP's and c-bet boards with 3 overs etc.

I do vaguely remember he was calling a lot of opens OTB and playing aggressively post when showed weakness, but other than that all I have are stats.

Edit: Okay after searching google for a bit I realized that you can go "help" and then "my settings" to open a player notes file and then do a manual search...

The notes I have on him are:

" * C's opens OTB with SC's, SP's, Ax suited * doesn't raise c-bets with TP * Shoved over turn c-bet with 10sJs OTB vs tight opener on 8-5s-7-2s"

any other useful stats or relevant info you could suggest zilla?


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Illfavor
Old 06-02-2010, 04:26 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 Been awhile since I've played online but is this not b/b/s...? Not sure what I'm missing here...
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oskar
Old 06-03-2010, 12:17 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 If he floats a lot, I like a c/s. Against a more passive opponent I might b/f $12
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aka_red
Old 06-03-2010, 01:23 AM #6 (permalink)  
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he is cold calling a 3b on the button vs mp1. i am skeptical of how wide his range really is. you seem to think its pretty wide so he'd have to be cold calling here a ton. relevant information is... what does his range look like for this? does he set mine here? how wide do you think his range gets here? 22+,AQo+, suited cards? Some people have a super wide range here and some people have a super tight range here. you say he still has Qx in his range what Qx does he have? is that congruent with your assessment of his range for cold calling your 3b here? you name a lot of hands that he could possibly have, how many of those do you think are likely? this goes back to what you set his range for cold calling here. if you don't know what his range is for cold calling here just say you don't know you've never seen him do this before, or i see him only do this with QQ+,AK, only AA, 22+,suited cards. but just because he could possibly have these possible hands doesn't mean that he actually does and there is no point in saying much about this hand if you don't really say anything about what you think his range is here. this spot is entirely Dependant on what his range for cold calling looks like.

also your added notes are totally irrelevant to the hand.
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Micro2Macro
Old 06-03-2010, 01:49 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reDZill4 View Post
he is cold calling a 3b on the button vs mp1. i am skeptical of how wide his range really is. you seem to think its pretty wide so he'd have to be cold calling here a ton. relevant information is... what does his range look like for this? does he set mine here? how wide do you think his range gets here? 22+,AQo+, suited cards? Some people have a super wide range here and some people have a super tight range here. you say he still has Qx in his range what Qx does he have? is that congruent with your assessment of his range for cold calling your 3b here? you name a lot of hands that he could possibly have, how many of those do you think are likely? this goes back to what you set his range for cold calling here. if you don't know what his range is for cold calling here just say you don't know you've never seen him do this before, or i see him only do this with QQ+,AK, only AA, 22+,suited cards. but just because he could possibly have these possible hands doesn't mean that he actually does and there is no point in saying much about this hand if you don't really say anything about what you think his range is here. this spot is entirely Dependant on what his range for cold calling looks like.

also your added notes are totally irrelevant to the hand.
someone reply back so he can rape this thread more.
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pokerfan
Old 06-03-2010, 02:51 AM #8 (permalink)  
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What flushes?? his range here is exactly AA,QQ or JJ given only 1% 3 bet. c/f sounds alright to me against most FR regulars unless you think that this guy is bad enough to cold call 3 bet with AQ preflop or float you with JJ.
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Halv
Old 06-03-2010, 03:25 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 So do you check the flop then?

edit:
I want to get the value from {AcK, lowest pp he has maybe 8c8+, basically anything that has a club that he got here with}. He plays 18/10, he's not stephen hawking preflop. either bet small/call (then bet small/fold riv blank) or smash shove depending on how aggro/stationy you think he's gonna be in this spot. Sure sometimes you get owned by set/aa but whatever.

if none of that stuff is in his range then probably c/f flop c/f turn b/f riv wa/wb

is this way off?

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daven
Old 06-03-2010, 03:45 AM #10 (permalink)  
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 i don't like your 3b sizing vs the min-open.

villain has all sorts of shit, cos it's not like flatting a normal 3bet. Mostly pairs, suited broadways, AJo+. Flop and i'd be very interested in his fold-to-3b rate and whether you think he's the floater type - 18-12s typically don't float that much cos they call planning to, but then get scared on the turn..

sets are less in his range after he calls on a two-tone board. He won't be folding his QJs/QKs/AQ sub-range on the turn. Dunno what flushes you think he has when you hold the flush K and the Q is on the board. If you think he's passive enough he'll be calling the ace flush draw on this turn, and cos of these combos i make it $15 to go. I actually don't see him raising any of his range on this turn...
don't raise with the straight flush bro, nobody ever gonna call that shit
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aka_red
Old 06-03-2010, 04:51 AM #11 (permalink)  
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this is exactly what i'm talking about. everybody has a different idea of what they think this guy's range is.. which probably means this guy's range could be anything. and you have no idea what his range is and therefore no idea how to proceed because given his range you should be doing different things vs the tight range you should prob c/f vs the looser range you should be going for stacks.
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caddie444
Old 06-04-2010, 02:58 AM #12 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daven View Post
i don't like your 3b sizing vs the min-open.
Well it has been my standard vs mini opens and thanks for pointing it out b/c it's likely not optimal vs many opponents.

Quote:
Originally Posted by daven View Post

Flop and i'd be very interested in his fold-to-3b rate and whether you think he's the floater type -
72% fold to 3 bet and I would say he's not a pure floater

Quote:
Originally Posted by daven View Post
I actually don't see him raising any of his range on this turn...
Yah well I b/f'd $14 which is prob the worst line, which is why I posted the hand

Quote:
Originally Posted by reDZill4 View Post
this is exactly what i'm talking about. everybody has a different idea of what they think this guy's range is.. which probably means this guy's range could be anything. and you have no idea what his range is and therefore no idea how to proceed because given his range you should be doing different things vs the tight range you should prob c/f vs the looser range you should be going for stacks.
Yah I guess the reason I was so lost in this spot is because I really had no idea what his cold calling range here is as I had no relevant history/reads on him nor had I noticed him cold call a 3B like this. Since I don't know I guess I should err on the safe side and c/f would prob be best.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Micro2Macro View Post
someone reply back so he can rape this thread more.
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Micro2Macro
Old 06-04-2010, 03:34 AM #13 (permalink)  
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 how is our 3bet size no good?
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Outlaw
Old 06-07-2010, 09:44 PM #14 (permalink)  
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Looks like 3 streets of value here... check/shoving the turn looks pretty sweet as well
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Deanglow
Old 06-08-2010, 10:03 PM #15 (permalink)  
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 Don't check/shove, just bet/fold turn and probably shove riv
 
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caddie444
Old 06-09-2010, 12:13 AM #16 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deanglow View Post
Don't check/shove, just bet/fold turn and probably shove riv

I did in fact b/f the turn for $14 because I'm a nit

Turn sizing ok? I think if I bet anything more I have to call it off since I do still have like ~20% equity vs AA,QQ,77,44 and if he has AQ at all it would be a super easy b/c.

Still the main thing I learned here is that so much depends on their cold calling range that it's hard to come to a correct conclusion, and that it's prob better to assume he's solid and that his range is strong.


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