|
Borax
|
06-09-2006, 12:55 PM
Post subject: KK flopping K42 - how to proceed?
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 584
|
|
NL 0.25/0.15£
Hero holds   and raises 5 limpers to 2£ in LP and get one caller (button). Stacks are Hero (35£) and button (25£).
Flop comes :Kc: 
How to proceed?
What if flop is :Kc: with no flush draw?
|
|
'Well, obviously, this is not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.'
|
Play for FREE and practice your game at...
Join the FTR Poker Forum to disable these banners and start posting!
|
|
Miffed22001
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
|
|
if you arent known for c/r'ing then you have to bet
Lukie made that great comment that a lot of small stakes players try to check/cold call and play big pots on later streets and it doesnt happen. You need to pot build early in the hope someone caught a part of it, or just doesnt think you have a part of it.
|
|
|
|
Borax
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 584
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
if you arent known for c/r'ing then you have to bet
Lukie made that great comment that a lot of small stakes players try to check/cold call and play big pots on later streets and it doesnt happen. You need to pot build early in the hope someone caught a part of it, or just doesnt think you have a part of it.
|
But is it likely that anyone got a part of this flop given that three K's are allready in play and they need to have called with 44 or 22, or two suited in the first example?
|
|
'Well, obviously, this is not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.'
|
|
cardsman1992
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
Posts: 1,065
|
|
I bet at the flop and am happy to take down the pot there, with the FD on the board. I might check a non-draw board and let him catch up on the turn.
Button probably wouldn't call without AK, 22, 44, or AA. AA unlikely because he did not reraise. 22 and 44 are, but don't risk it against a FD. Take your smallish pot and 
|
|
|
|
jackvance
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
|
|
Check and hope you can pick off a bluff. He probably didn't hit the flop. If Villain is the passive kind who would never try to steal a pot, and generally plays a cautious game, better bet the flop. Or give him a free turn card and hope he improves.
|
|
|
|
Pelion
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,206
|
|
How often do you cbet.
I almost always cbet so slowplaying when I hit is kinda silly.
|
|
gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.
bigspenda73: But how much did you win?
|
|
Fnord
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,334
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by cardsman1992
I bet at the flop and am happy to take down the pot there, with the FD on the board.
|
It's heads-up to the flop, the other guy rarely will have the flush draw.
|
|
|
|
cardsman1992
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
Posts: 1,065
|
|
Do you check turn heads up no matter what then? I guess I have had "Don't slowplay a set" beaten into my head..... 
|
|
|
|
Borax
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 584
|
|
Earlier I also cbet almost every flop, but after reading a few books I've started to check more often with for example an AK that doesn't hit. Like you suggest I sometimes use this to conceal a monster as well. Recently I have been up against some aggressive players in cash games who seem to call most of my raises and then attack my cbets really hard and this cost me quite alot if I continue to cbet with nothing. If I do not have a read that they will fold to a turn bet as well, I check fold the bad flop. The good thing about it is that sometimes they overplay.
Yesterday one of those guys hit me hard twice and stole two cbets after callig me with random hands it seemed. He then attacked my 0.25-2£ raise for the third time and called my cbet and turn bet on a T 6 4 ---2 board. I pushed 12£ into a 17£ pot on the 8 river and he called my AA with 54s...
|
|
'Well, obviously, this is not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.'
|
|
Warpe
|
|
Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Canuckistan
Posts: 3,905
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by jackvance
Check and hope you can pick off a bluff. He probably didn't hit the flop. If Villain is the passive kind who would never try to steal a pot, and generally plays a cautious game, better bet the flop. Or give him a free turn card and hope he improves.
|
|
|
|
|
jackvance
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Borax
Earlier I also cbet almost every flop,
|
That's silly. The idea behind a cbet (the one where you miss the flop) is that when you hit and bet, people fold more often than not. So to extract more value in the long run, and cloud your real hand strength as an aside, you cbet to follow up your PFR. However, if people always call you down, there is really no need to be cbetting. Bet when you hit, check if you miss. If he likes to attack your weakness by stealing pots when you miss, then you have to check/raise him on the flop. Sometimes with air (or a draw or something), sometimes with a real hand.
|
|
|
|
Borax
|
|
Flush
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Norway
Posts: 584
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by jackvance
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Borax
Earlier I also cbet almost every flop,
|
That's silly. The idea behind a cbet (the one where you miss the flop) is that when you hit and bet, people fold more often than not. So to extract more value in the long run, and cloud your real hand strength as an aside, you cbet to follow up your PFR. However, if people always call you down, there is really no need to be cbetting. Bet when you hit, check if you miss. If he likes to attack your weakness by stealing pots when you miss, then you have to check/raise him on the flop. Sometimes with air (or a draw or something), sometimes with a real hand. |
Yes, but the texture of the flop is important to.
|
|
'Well, obviously, this is not meant to be taken literally. It refers to any manufacturers of dairy products.'
|
|
Lukie
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
|
|
I think in spots like this, the best move is just to make your standard c-bet. I know the deck is somewhat crippled, but you have to hope that the guy either caught a piece of it with Kx, AA (not likely but certainly possible), 55-QQ that often won't fold to your first bet (weighted towards the top of that range), 44/22, 2 diamonds, a few other hands, or that he straight up floats on you (against players like this, I often bet the flop and check the turn).
The idea behind checking the flop is that either he bets (but seriously, how transparent is raising 5 limpers, then check/calling or check/raising the flop and trying to stack the guy), or he checks and catches up (but, if he doesn't like his hand now, how often is the guy going to improve to a hand he really likes. 2 'outters' don't happen often )
Truthfully, all things considered, I think making your standard c-bet a large majority of the time here is the best play. I think if the turn bricks, then we have an interesting decision though.
|
|
|
|
Lukie
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by cardsman1992
I bet at the flop and am happy to take down the pot there, with the FD on the board. I might check a non-draw board and let him catch up on the turn.
Button probably wouldn't call without AK, 22, 44, or AA. AA unlikely because he did not reraise. 22 and 44 are, but don't risk it against a FD. Take your smallish pot and |
whaaaaaaat
Usually I bet this flop, the other guy turbo-mucks, and I give an annoyed "F***", of which my computer has heard many.
|
|
|
|
cardsman1992
|
|
Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
Posts: 1,065
|
|
Probably too worried about AQ/AJ diamonds sucking out on me...
There are days any pot is better than none...
I just don't like slowplaying a set. I c-bet this flop 90% of the time. If the guy is autofolding anyway, how much more money do you get from him by checking? He still has to hit his hand....
|
|
Operation Grind For Education:
Current BR: $10080(04/06/2009) BR Goal: $15000--I LOVE RB!!!
End date: 31aug2009
Current stakes: $100/200NL FR
|
|
Lukie
|
|
4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: back with a vengeance
Posts: 3,307
|
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by cardsman1992
Probably too worried about AQ/AJ diamonds sucking out on me...
There are days any pot is better than none...
I just don't like slowplaying a set. I c-bet this flop 90% of the time. If the guy is autofolding anyway, how much more money do you get from him by checking? He still has to hit his hand.... |
I agree with betting, but the guy doesn't often have diamonds here. If he does and hits the turn, we still have the 2nd nut redraw to diamonds and the FH/quads redraw as well.
Personally I'm hoping the guy has exactly 44/22 and isn't going to smooth-call 2 streets with it on this board...
|
|
|
|
Miffed22001
|
|
Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
|
|
there are enough bad players who think you have missed overs here to call you down with 77 type stuff
|
|
|
English
Deutsch
Español
Français
Italiano
Nederlands
Pусский
Svenska
05-26-2012, 03:08 PM Australia Legalized Online Poker coming up in next 6 to 12 Months
Linear Mode
