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KK calldown

  
 
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Renton
Old 01-15-2007, 07:01 AM     Post subject: KK calldown #1 (permalink)  
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 Villain is slaggy preflop. We haven't played any meaningful pots (im new to these games).


FullTiltPoker Game #1602592171: Table Chaparral Summit - $2/$4 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:48:55 ET - 2007/01/14
Seat 1: Indi_T ($494.10)
Seat 2: Dinson ($441.20)
Seat 3: JJ TittyPrancer ($675.40)
Seat 4: scsyndrome ($295.45)
Seat 5: El Jaffe ($364.65)
Seat 6: LittleStumpy ($85.40)
Seat 7: loloPOZZEDu ($440.50)
Seat 9: Iridium ($388)
Indi_T posts the small blind of $2
Dinson posts the big blind of $4
The button is in seat #9

*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to loloPOZZEDu [Kh Kc]

JJ TittyPrancer has 15 seconds left to act
JJ TittyPrancer folds
scsyndrome calls $4
El Jaffe folds
LittleStumpy folds
loloPOZZEDu raises to $16
Iridium folds
Indi_T folds
Dinson folds
scsyndrome calls $12

*** FLOP *** [Jc 9c 8s]

scsyndrome bets $38
loloPOZZEDu calls $38

*** TURN *** [Jc 9c 8s] [8d]

scsyndrome bets $114
loloPOZZEDu calls $114

*** RIVER *** [Jc 9c 8s 8d] [Ah]

scsyndrome bets $127.45, and is all in
loloPOZZEDu calls $127.45
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Beck
Old 01-15-2007, 07:14 AM #2 (permalink)  
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with a flush draw and straight draw out there. re-raise on the flop see what he has.

What are you placing him on to just keep calling? JT, QQ, JQ
what about 98, or 99, or AJ, maybe QTs I think those are all in his range. I would assume JJ he would re-raise preflop

-Beck
-Beck
 
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stuck
Old 01-15-2007, 07:53 AM #3 (permalink)  
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I I like it: gives someone with air a chance to put all their money in the pot, especially if said person will fold to a sign of aggression. Calling down blind is hard though, especially on that board as there are many draws and semi-bluffing is a possibility. What do you do if the river is a 7 or a club?

That said: I do like it.
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Renton
Old 01-15-2007, 07:56 AM #4 (permalink)  
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 In my experience, these donkbets are generally a sign of weakness or of a draw, but they are definitely done with strong hands sometimes.

I don't really like raising the flop because A. Im pushing him off all the hands that are drawing very slim to me (Qx, air). and B. His calling range is probably a favorite vs KK. If anything, i think that calling the flop and shoving a blank turn would be better, so at least i would gain more equity vs his draws.

Here's a pokerstove i ran for his donkbetting range (obviously an estimate) i canceled out the sets and flopped straights for the times when he's donking out with air or a draw.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

481,140 games 0.032 secs 15,035,625 games/sec

Board: Jc 9c 8s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 56.319% 55.72% 00.60% 268074 2898.00 { KK }
Hand 1: 43.681% 43.08% 00.60% 207270 2898.00 { QQ, TT, AJs, KJs, QJs, J8s+, 98s, AJo, KJo, QJo, J8o+, 98o }
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Miffed22001
Old 01-15-2007, 09:11 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 push the turn? or make a raise he finds hard to fold to.

Saying that it looks very 88/99 set type line.

Edit: scratch that, a passive with TT?
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arkana
Old 01-15-2007, 09:57 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Pushing the turn >>> calling turn and calling river
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Renton
Old 01-15-2007, 05:47 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arkana
Pushing the turn >>> calling turn and calling river
i actually agree with this in light of the fact that he's only 75bb deep. If he's 100bb+, isn't a calldown line better?
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Beck
Old 01-15-2007, 07:56 PM #8 (permalink)  
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The only thing I don't like about his betting is that he bets the pot trying to push you off. it is very close to how I might play a strong hand against a player like you, but I would bet 3/4 pot like all my other bets. Its defenitely how i would play TT, 88, 99, or 89. with TT I would have probably slowed down on the turn since you called and I missed my flop

I have also seen players play like this with AJ which I doubt he has cause you said he is laggy so I assume he would raise preflop. But against a lag such as yourself, I might just limp in and let you raise since you very well might.

I know you guys are better then me so I ask. what makes you think you have a better hand?
-Beck
 
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Renton
Old 01-15-2007, 09:19 PM #9 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beck
But against a lag such as yourself,
Lol im only 16/10.

BTW, the idea that our hand is good comes from the heavy donkbet on the flop. The typical play with a hand that beats KK on a board like this would be to check raise the flop. The donkbet is generally a draw, a weakish top or second pair, or even a total bluff (a gutshot or something). This theory doesn't hold very much water against a player who mixes it up a lot though.
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Beck
Old 01-16-2007, 11:47 AM #10 (permalink)  
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why donk bet? becuase it is pot sized and designed to push you off?
-Beck
 
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