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djzcko
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07-20-2006, 08:53 PM
Post subject: KK 5xBB in MP, 5 Callers!
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#1 (permalink)
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 285
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UTG+2 is 20/3.5 with a .54 af after 170 hands. No other read on him. What should I have done?
PokerRoom No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (10 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)
SB ($51.40)
BB ($41.65)
UTG ($54.60)
UTG+1 ($42.50)
UTG+2 ($51.05)
Hero ($105.50)
MP2 ($49.50)
MP3 ($53.80)
CO ($14.35)
Button ($16.00)
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with  ,  .
2 folds, UTG+2 calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.5, MP2 calls $2.50, 2 folds, Button calls $2.50, SB calls $2.25, BB calls $2, UTG+2 calls $2.
Flop: ($15)  ,  ,  (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+2 bets $10, Hero??.
Final Pot: $25
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mxiu
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Full House
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 982
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Raise to $30-$35.
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,322
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Gotta put him to the test... see above.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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freechus9
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: IN UR BOX HAXXING UR FILEZ
Posts: 1,000
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Raise it up as others have said. Raise more preflop though.. Make it 3.5 to go.
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My sig is too much for you to handle.
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holdin2
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Flush
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 279
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by freechus9
Raise it up as others have said. Raise more preflop though.. Make it 3.5 to go.
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I don't know, I think a 5x (more than potsized) bet was fine. I don't see any reason to announce our hand if we don't raise like this with other hands. Unless the table has been calling 5x raises easily prior to this.
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djzcko
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 285
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by holdin2
Quote:
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Originally Posted by freechus9
Raise it up as others have said. Raise more preflop though.. Make it 3.5 to go.
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I don't know, I think a 5x (more than potsized) bet was fine. I don't see any reason to announce our hand if we don't raise like this with other hands. Unless the table has been calling 5x raises easily prior to this. |
5x is my standard raise. I will add limper tax if there is more than one caller in front of me, but UTG+2 was the only one so I made it $2.50. I have a pretty tight image and get a 50% fold rate to my pf raises. Yes, 50% of the time I raise pf, everyone folds! This is the 1st time I can recall in almost 20k hands of $50nl that I've had five callers to my pf raise...
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by freechus9
Raise more preflop though.. Make it 3.5 to go.
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Because in hindsight he got too many callers? His preflop was fine..
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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freechus9
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: IN UR BOX HAXXING UR FILEZ
Posts: 1,000
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I don't know, I like to raise a lot. My standard is 4x on top plus one more for every limper. And if there are 6 seeing a flop after a raise...table might be a little looseygoosey.
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My sig is too much for you to handle.
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jackvance
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,910
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by freechus9
I don't know, I like to raise a lot. My standard is 4x on top plus one more for every limper.
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That's exactly what he did..
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Sarcasm is your body's natural defense against stupidity
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zook
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,676
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This bet worries me because villain stats are so nitty, especially post-flop (0.54 AF is LOW). I put him on 22,33, or AJ. I don't think this guy is ever betting a flush draw hard like this. I raise to $25 I think. A little wimpy I know, but it denies flush draw odds to the blinds (the button short-stack gets them no matter what you do) and as I said, I'm not worried about villain drawing. Fold to a push or a strong turn lead.
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freechus9
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Full House
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: IN UR BOX HAXXING UR FILEZ
Posts: 1,000
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If people were folding as often as you said, then PF is fine. I just thought it was a little odd that there were 5 callers, that's all. My b.
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My sig is too much for you to handle.
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djzcko
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 285
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When I say 50% fold rate to my pf raises, I mean over almost 20k hands, not this specific table. However, this table was no looser than the average table I play so I had no reason to think I'd get 5 callers.
OK, here's my thinking on this hand:
UTG +2 was 20/3.5. OK, pretty standard nit. However, .54 aggression factor is ridiculous. What that tells me is that this guy will bet only when he's got a good hand. Add to that the fact that he limped/called. What are the most likely hands this guy has? A low PP...22 or 33 most likely. Maybe AJ. With the board showing two hearts, any good player is going to hit this hard on the flop if they hit their set. Thus, I concluded he most likely hit his set based on his EP bet. On top of that, with 4 more players to act after me, I couldn't be sure that none of them had JJ, 22 or 33. AA would have re-raised with all of those callers so I ruled that out. So, taking that all into account, I folded. Unfortunately, nobody called his bet so I didn't see a showdown...sounds like most of you disagree with this fold though.
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,322
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No, I like your reasoning.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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Fnord
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Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck
Posts: 19,334
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$20
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Fnord
$20
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why?
any raise here against these stacks commits us to the pot surely?
Any action from behind if we miniraise commits us to it to surely?
Im just pushing or folding i think.
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dwags222
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Straight
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Gaylord, MI
Posts: 151
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have you heard that a whole bunch of players at 2+2 are boycotting pokerroom because they have some new rediculous rake scheme?
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Galapogos
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: The Loser's Lounge
Posts: 2,322
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Please elaborate, it's where I play. Might be time for me to switch?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sauce123
I don't get why you insist on stacking off with like jack high all the time.
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knoedel
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 89
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I am with miffed: Push it. Do you really think you could lay it down after an all-in rereraise? This is one of the situations the money is going to go in the pot anyway, no matter talking about the best line. If someone hit their set, or someone runners a flush, so be it.
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In order to live you have to be ready to die!
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biondino
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Putney, UK; Full Tilt,Mansion; $50 NL and PL; $13 and $16 SNGs at Stars
Posts: 3,170
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If he's 20/3.5 he probably doesn't raise AJ, so that's got to be a likely holding (he'd fold any other jack here I think other than JJ - would he raise JJ, do you think?). However, 22 or 33 both make good sense - his bet is pretty substantial compared to the pot so clearly he wants drawing hands out, and he's confident enough to risk 20% of his stack against 4 unknowns (including the pre-flop raiser) - I think it's a good fold.
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by biondino
If he's 20/3.5 he probably doesn't raise AJ, so that's got to be a likely holding (he'd fold any other jack here I think other than JJ - would he raise JJ, do you think?). However, 22 or 33 both make good sense - his bet is pretty substantial compared to the pot so clearly he wants drawing hands out, and he's confident enough to risk 20% of his stack against 4 unknowns (including the pre-flop raiser) - I think it's a good fold.
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he might also like his TT too much....
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relayer
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 68
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Galapogos
Please elaborate, it's where I play. Might be time for me to switch?
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Yeah, I play there too. What's the deal?
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cardsman1992
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
Posts: 1,065
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Preflop good.
I raise flop to $30, fold to a push. 3.5% PFR means AA-JJ, AK, so rule those out. smells like 22 or 33, maybe AJ/TT to me. His bet would scare me but I can't laydown to that bet on that flop.
But I enjoy swinging like a monkey, too....
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Operation Grind For Education:
Current BR: $10080(04/06/2009) BR Goal: $15000--I LOVE RB!!!
End date: 31aug2009
Current stakes: $100/200NL FR
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Miffed22001
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Straight Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Marry Me Cheryl!!!
Posts: 8,181
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by cardsman1992
Preflop good.
I raise flop to $30, fold to a push. 3.5% PFR means AA-JJ, AK, so rule those out. smells like 22 or 33, maybe AJ/TT to me. His bet would scare me but I can't laydown to that bet on that flop.
But I enjoy swinging like a monkey, too....
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you cant fold once you raise the pot odds say so.
A flush draw can push probably and be playing not so horribly.
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cardsman1992
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Full House
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Being enjoyed at Jack's Bar since 1397
Posts: 1,065
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Stack sizes, you're right...DOH!!
In that case, I takes my chances if he pushes....
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Operation Grind For Education:
Current BR: $10080(04/06/2009) BR Goal: $15000--I LOVE RB!!!
End date: 31aug2009
Current stakes: $100/200NL FR
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