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r8ed
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09-27-2005, 04:43 AM
Post subject: Juicing the pot on a draw
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#1 (permalink)
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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I don't have the history, but does it make sense to juice a pot when you have a OESD with 4 people who will call? I was last position and I raised .25 on the flop when checked around and all 4 called. Then the turn came and I didn't hit. Same thing. River comes and I don't hit. I show down my crap hand. This was my first hand and two guys let me have it for the next half hour. I played tight after that hoping to capitalize. I doubled later but probably not because this hand.
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ekillian
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 235
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Sounds like your bets were too small to do anything except make you pay for your draw and diguise your hand. The disguising your hand part is good, but if these guys are simply calling that small bet they porbably aren't strong enough to pay you off if you make your hand. If you bet .25 on the turn I think it was an awful play.
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Zangief
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 370
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Min-betting, especially on 2 streets, often says to me, "I'm a fish on a draw." I will sometimes raise with any 2 cards.
Sometimes I do run into that shark who is min-betting with his top set, though. Or the super-duper fish who min-bets top pair.
If it gets checked around to you and you have an OESD, why not bet whatever you would bet with TP (about pot)? This sets up different plays on the turn: firing the second (larger) barrel if you miss (that you know they're less likely to call on a draw), taking a free card if you miss, or value betting your straight if it hits.
Semi-bluff to win, baby!
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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When it gets around to you in late position, and you're on a strong draw, this should be your thought process...
What are my implied odds, and what is my fold equity.
When everyone checks to you, it's assumed your implied odds are minimal, and your fold equity is strong. USE IT. Your opponents showed weakness, and therefore won't pay off a made hand in most cases. A semi-bluff is in order. Not a min bet, but a 3/4 to pot sized bet. If someone calls, then you still have outs and successfully cloked the draw.
If it's bet and called to you, then you raise in late position sometimes because implied odds and positional leverage are what you want to utilize. Your raise is only minimally a semi-bluff, and mostly to cloke your draw and/or get a free card. YOU DON'T RAISE IF YOU FEEL YOUR OPPONENT WILL PUSH HARDER.
Never min bet unless you're trapping or mixing it up for a change of pace. Consistent min bet draw players lose tremendous value. They get raped by disrespect in the form of huge bluff raises into their draws, and meet up with dry pots when they hit a hand.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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r8ed
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,524
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This was a change of pace move. I never do this, but one guy in the hand loved to reraise my pot sized bets huge. I wanted to juice the pot in case I hit and then with more money in the pot he would be more inclined to come over the top. I'll have to dig up the hand to get exactly what I did. Either way, I just wanted to see what peopl thought.
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Seasider
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Flush
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Bangor UK
Posts: 563
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I am playing on $25 and $50 NL tables on Paradise and recently have noticed that LOTS of players will min bet their draws. In fact it's so common if I am holding at all i'll thump in a pot sized bet. This normally makes them go away as people who use this move normally have some understanding of pot odds etc.
Of course if they call the raise i have to sit back and look at my hand.
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Zangief
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Flush
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 370
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Seasider
Of course if they call the raise i have to sit back and look at my hand.
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If they min-bet again on the turn and it still smells like a fish to me, I blast it again.
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ekillian
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Straight
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 235
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by r8ed
This was a change of pace move. I never do this, but one guy in the hand loved to reraise my pot sized bets huge. I wanted to juice the pot in case I hit and then with more money in the pot he would be more inclined to come over the top. I'll have to dig up the hand to get exactly what I did. Either way, I just wanted to see what peopl thought.
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If he's reraising huge when you bet pot why not try to draw for free because 0.25 is nothing in the pot compared to a "huge reraise" so it sounds like a perfect time NOT to mix things up. Hope to catch for free than get him to do his routine. Much better idea IMO than "juicing" the pot. I really ahte the "juicing the pot" idea here.
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Rondavu
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4-of-a-Kind
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,053
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ekillian
I really hate the "juicing the pot" idea here.
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Me too, except when you say it in conjunction with your avatar.
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It's not what's inside that counts. Have you seen what's inside?
Internal organs. And they're getting uglier by the minute.
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