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JJ what do you do against a c-bet and an overcard

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ThelVlaster

12-18-2005, 08:41 AM Post subject: JJ what do you do against a c-bet and an overcard

#1 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Oct 2005

Posts: 222

sphilips is said to be semi-loose aggressive (preflop) agressive (postflop) by poker tracker.
[Edit:] Total of 73 Hands recorded in PT
VP$IP%=30.14 PFR%=13.7 WtSD%=38.1 Total-AF=1.88
Known hands

note: I didn't look at these before playing this hand)
AJo. Raise preflop of 7BB
A8o. Re-raise Allin preflop of 23BB (won w/ two pair)
QQ. Standard PFR of 4BB
KJo. Standard PFR of 4BB
J8o. Open limp MP.

Bets 50% of the time after a raise preflop. Folds 10%. Checks 20%.

GAME #1160103927 - (BLINDS $0.05/$0.10) NO LIMIT TEXAS HOLD'EM - 2005/12/18-01:47:58.0 (CST)
Table "Dominica" (real money) -- Seat 7 is the button
Seat 1: sphilips ($21.50 in chips)
Seat 2: GoDevil ($26.00 in chips)
Seat 3: DaWhittler ($8.65 in chips)
Seat 4: BIGHUDDY_44 ($12.95 in chips)
Seat 5: Twohands22 ($6.65 in chips)
Seat 7: Raand ($7.95 in chips)
Seat 8: coachhorn ($25.83 in chips)
Seat 9: krum2000 ($23.95 in chips)
Seat 10: canaB ($12.40 in chips)
coachhorn: Post Small Blind ($0.05)
krum2000: Post Big Blind ($0.10)
Dealing...
Dealt to DaWhittler [ Jd ]
Dealt to DaWhittler [ Jh ]
canaB : Fold
sphilips: Raise ($0.40)
GoDevil : Fold
DaWhittler: Call ($0.40) Was going to reraise since this player is semi loose but decided i'd re-raise if there were no over cards on the flop
BIGHUDDY_44: Call ($0.40)
Twohands22: Fold
Raand : Fold
coachhorn: Fold
krum2000: Fold
*** FLOP *** : [ 3c 6d Qc ]
sphilips: Bet ($1) I knew this bet was coming, and I don't see it entirely impossible for him to have AQ or KQ
DaWhittler: Fold. Was 3 tabling and thought I might be behind here (costs 1/8 my stack to call, only 40c invested)
BIGHUDDY_44: Fold
sphilips: Winner -- doesn't show cards
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $1.30 | Rake: $0.05
Board: [ 3c 6d Qc ]
sphilips bet $1.40, collected $2.30, net +$0.90
GoDevil didn't bet (folded)
DaWhittler lost $0.40 (folded) [ Jd Jh ] (a pair of jacks)
BIGHUDDY_44 lost $0.40 (folded)
Twohands22 didn't bet (folded)
Raand didn't bet (folded)
coachhorn lost $0.05 (folded)
krum2000 lost $0.10 (folded)
canaB didn't bet (folded)
-------------------------------------------------

Do you reraise the flop to see where you stand? or just call hoping for a check on the turn? He would probably still bet the turn since he has a high aggressive factor.

Need help with playing JJ, as I never know where I stand unless I have momentum preflop.

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Telepath

12-18-2005, 09:47 AM

#2 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 105

Like you play this you are just giving money away. If you can't play JJ when there are overs you simply shouldn't play JJ for a raise. You're 1/8 to hit your set and there is going to be overs more than half the time.

It's perhaps one thing if there is an ace since everyone likes to raise strong aces. But this is only a queen and you only have one opponent. You are really only afraid of a very limited number of hands; AQ, KQ, JQ, QQ, KK, AA.

Notice that the original raiser might very well have TT, 88 or AK. I know that if I raised preflop with the first two holdings I would definitely bet pot if I only had one over, and AK is the "nut no pair", so I would probably bet that one as well.

You should reraise preflop for sure. Don't pay that much attention to the queen. JJ is a quality hand especially against loose aggressives. You should get some value out of it.

Note especially that you say "you only have 40c invested". Well, there's a problem. You only have 40c invested since you only invested 40c in it.

No limit Hold'Em - hours of boredom followed by moments of sheer terror.

ThelVlaster

12-18-2005, 06:32 PM

#3 (permalink)

Straight

Join Date: Oct 2005

Posts: 222

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telepath

You should reraise preflop for sure. Don't pay that much attention to the queen. JJ is a quality hand especially against loose aggressives. You should get some value out of it.

So what do I do when I reraise preflop and a loose aggressive lets me bet into him, and then reraises on the river. Should I check behind on the turn?

Fnord

12-18-2005, 06:41 PM

#4 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,334

Fnord is an unknown quantity at this point

Hero played the hand fine. Passive, but fine.

If he's raising and c-betting a lot, then both calling and raising have merit.

The problem with a flop raise is that you still have 2 streets to play and checking behind or weak betting might open you up to a world of hurt. Then again, a nice raise is really going to tie you to the pot.

I don't mind a call here to see what he does on the turn. If he shows weakness you can attack. If you set-up, stack him. If a bad card hits, then you get away. Also, shoving in half your stack on the turn is likely to stop the action right there as not a lot of hands will be willing to re-raise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Telepath

12-18-2005, 07:03 PM

#5 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 105

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThelVlaster

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telepath

You should reraise preflop for sure. Don't pay that much attention to the queen. JJ is a quality hand especially against loose aggressives. You should get some value out of it.

So what do I do when I reraise preflop and a loose aggressive lets me bet into him, and then reraises on the river. Should I check behind on the turn?

It depends on the turn and river. Obviously if turn river is K A your hand is pretty fucked.

As long as there is only one overcard on the board and that overcard isn't paired, I fire. I truly believe it is a +EV play given that you are headsup against a loose raiser.

If you do get reraised on the river, I guess you should go with your read on the situation, but on a Q high flop, I simply call.

T.

No limit Hold'Em - hours of boredom followed by moments of sheer terror.

Telepath

12-18-2005, 07:07 PM

#6 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 105

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

I don't mind a call here to see what he does on the turn. If he shows weakness you can attack. If you set-up, stack him. If a bad card hits, then you get away.

Won't a flat call simply incite him to keep trying to run you over? You have two outs to the monster. What is your line when he pot bets the turn without anything interesting happening to the board?

T.

No limit Hold'Em - hours of boredom followed by moments of sheer terror.

Fnord

12-18-2005, 07:11 PM

#7 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,334

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telepath

Won't a flat call simply incite him to keep trying to run you over? You have two outs to the monster. What is your line when he pot bets the turn without anything interesting happening to the board?

Fold to turn bet. Some aggro players tip their hands on the turn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Telepath

12-18-2005, 07:20 PM

#8 (permalink)

3-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Dec 2004

Posts: 105

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Telepath

Won't a flat call simply incite him to keep trying to run you over? You have two outs to the monster. What is your line when he pot bets the turn without anything interesting happening to the board?

Fold to turn bet. Some aggro players tip their hands on the turn.

Let's say lag has TT. You think him incapable of following through on the turn?

My experience (as small as that admittedly may be) says if you simply keep calling, they won't quit.

T.

No limit Hold'Em - hours of boredom followed by moments of sheer terror.

Nugunz

12-19-2005, 12:10 AM

#9 (permalink)

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: BG

Posts: 55

I'd re-raise the flop to $3. If he calls, then you know where the queen is. Odds are he doesn't have it, and is trying to end the hand with the $1 bet. I dont think re-raising pre-flop is that big of deal though.

Fnord

12-19-2005, 04:43 AM

#10 (permalink)

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Join Date: Dec 2003

Location: I'll Do You Like A Truck

Posts: 19,334

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nugunz

If he calls, then you know where the queen is.

What makes you say this? A lot of inexperienced players will call the $2 and not give much for information until the turn.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y

Nugunz

12-19-2005, 04:35 PM

#11 (permalink)

Join Date: Dec 2004

Location: BG

Posts: 55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nugunz

If he calls, then you know where the queen is.

What makes you say this? A lot of inexperienced players will call the $2 and not give much for information until the turn.

Okay you're right. You're repping the Q or better, so if you check the turn and he bets then I'd probably get out.

veryrocky

01-07-2006, 02:26 AM

#12 (permalink)

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: san jose

Posts: 16

4xbb raise would generally indicate AK AQ PP AA-1010's

depending on the style of your opponent, i believe with JJ, a fairly strong hand it could have been effective if you took the lead in this hand...i.e. reraise on the flop to see if he has an over pair or if he flat calls than it may indicate small pp to AK AQ... with the flop he would check to you than a 3/4 pot size bet could let you know exactly where you stand... you also had position as well. this would be one possibility the hand could have been played.

ace king is not a made hand.

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JJ what do you do against a c-bet and an overcard

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