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JJ Turned set - What do you do?

  
 
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ThelVlaster
Old 07-17-2006, 10:27 PM     Post subject: JJ Turned set - What do you do? #1 (permalink)  
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The whole table is full of fish, they call with anything.

UTG+1 ($10.30)
MP1 ($5.15)
MP2 ($17.90)
Hero ($14.75)
CO ($5.76)
Button ($7.86)
SB ($6)
BB ($6.20)
UTG ($7.95)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J , J .
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.10, MP2 calls $0.10, Hero raises to $0.50, 1 fold, Button calls $0.50, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.40

Flop: ($1.75) 8, 9, A (3 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets $0.90, Button folds, MP2 calls $0.90.

Turn: ($3.55) J (2 players)
MP2 bets $3, Hero ????
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fade177
Old 07-17-2006, 10:43 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Unfortunately, your flop bet was too weak, giving odds to chase, regardless of whether they are fish or not. At least a 1/2 pot bet is necessary here, to at least give us the information we want, also if they are fish, we want to pump the pot to maximize our winnings. Unfortunately your set gives QT a straight, a hand that many fish will play. I don't know what to tell you to do from here. If you reraise, you will at least find out whether he caught his straight or not. You made a mistake on the flop, and it might have cost you dearly....
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IowaSkinsFan
Old 07-17-2006, 10:46 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 raise to 8, get the rest in on river. I'm never giving opps credit for QT (though it is probable at these stakes) This could easily be AJ, and under set that wants to get draws out, other two pair, or draw all which you are killing.
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bigred
Old 07-17-2006, 10:51 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 I like the raise to 8 line.
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ThelVlaster
Old 07-17-2006, 11:08 PM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fade177
Unfortunately, your flop bet was too weak, giving odds to chase, regardless of whether they are fish or not. At least a 1/2 pot bet is necessary here
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThelVlaster
Flop: ($1.75) 8Spade, 9Club, AHeart (3 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets $0.90
That is $0.025 more than a 1/2 pot bet.... So I don't see what you are saying
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ThelVlaster
Old 07-17-2006, 11:16 PM #6 (permalink)  
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I went all in - maybe a bad move.
It may make worst hands fold and hands that beat me call.
Then again it looks like a bluff and it may get a call from AK, definitely a call from AJ.


Lets say you think there is a good chance he has a straight (if you would like - pretend the flop was 78, not 89 so its a OESD not a gutshot)

Do you just call hoping to get quads or a fh on the river? Do you push, hoping he doesn't have it, and if he does you still have 10 outs?

Is anyone folding this in 10nl? 100nl?
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FlopTurnThenRivered
Old 07-17-2006, 11:34 PM #7 (permalink)  

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what was the outcome???
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swiggidy
Old 07-18-2006, 12:00 AM #8 (permalink)  
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 I push too, not that it's a great play.

If you were playing with thinking opponents wouldn't a raise to $8 be bad? You are left with $6 behind and a pot of $18. As villain I would assume the last $6 was going in on the river and I would then have odds to draw. Is this a valid concern or just SnG/MTT thinking? Do you fold if a club, Q, K, 7 comes?

If opponent called the flop with QT you'll win your money back in short order. I don't worry about that at all.
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fade177
Old 07-18-2006, 12:23 AM #9 (permalink)  
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I apologize, i don't know what I was thinking, it was a 1/2 pot bet. I do still feel that the bet needed to be more, at those stakes a lot of players could care less over a few dimes.....
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ThelVlaster
Old 07-18-2006, 12:32 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Like I said I went all-in. He had QTo.

River was a Q.

I thought to myself, "He can't have QT" because I don't play gutshots - but of course fish do. I think its 6 to 1 odds to call with a gutshot, and he had 2.95 to 1.

Even if I bet 2/3pot-pot, I think he still would have called.

I'm still unsure how to play a set on a possible straight board - Call/fold if board doesn't pair?
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swiggidy
Old 07-18-2006, 12:38 AM #11 (permalink)  
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 If the only hand I can put an opponent on, that I'm loosing to, is a gutshot straight, I'm paying it off all day.

Like skins said, there are way to many other hands that use the exact same line.
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silu73
Old 07-18-2006, 12:41 AM #12 (permalink)  
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I only want to add that at this level I would raise JJ to $1 as most fish play with Ace rags and like to see cheap flops. Depending on the make up of the table I am happy to take down a small pot with JJ, which in my book is the hardest PP to play.
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Miffed22001
Old 07-18-2006, 02:40 AM #13 (permalink)  
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 i probably push here. Only given a solid read that my opp likes to fish would i call here and consider showing down without stacking off.
I dont think an ace bets like this, but a hand that wants you to call or raise this bet does.
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Greedo017
Old 07-18-2006, 02:54 AM #14 (permalink)  
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 i don't bet the flop. get it all in on the turn, push, raise to 8, whatever, either way you're committed. qt is irrelevant they will call with worse.
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