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JJ - Should I have folded preflop

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Lonny

02-18-2008, 04:28 PM Post subject: JJ - Should I have folded preflop

#1 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 51

Hi everybody

I am new here (at least at posting a topic

) and I think this is a great side.

I have seen that you people has helped a lot of others, so I hope that you will also help me

I have my doubts about this hand, I can not see that I should have folded after the flop, but maybe I should have folded preflop?

I am not used to playing cash games because I have mostly played tournaments.

The player I am up against is Thight aggresive and sees only 13% of his hands.

Should I have known from the start that I was beaten?

MP2 ($22.63)
CO ($0)
Button ($2.42)
SB ($1.65)
BB ($2)
UTG ($1.90)
Hero ($19.18)
MP1 ($9.70)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J, J.
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.3, MP1 raises to $1, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.70.

Flop: ($2.15) 3, 9, 2 (4 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $1, Hero calls $1.

Turn: ($4.15) 6 (4 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $2, Hero calls $2.

River: ($8.15) T (4 players)
Hero checks, MP1 bets $3, Hero calls $3.

Final Pot: $14.15

MP1 had KK

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Pelion

02-18-2008, 06:09 PM

#2 (permalink)

4-of-a-Kind

Join Date: Sep 2005

Posts: 3,206

players at this level who only see 13% of hands tend to be nits (weak/tight passives) rather than true TAGs. What that means is (unless you have another read) hes very unlikely to be reraising preflop with less than TT+, AQ+ and hes very unlikely to be bluffing after the flop (and he even likely slows down with TT). That means you should probably fold the turn because you are going to be seeing TT+ pretty much every time and even TT isnt as likely as say QQ.

gabe: Ive dropped almost 100k in the past 35 days.

bigspenda73: But how much did you win?

mrhappy333

02-18-2008, 06:12 PM

#3 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Hartford, CT

Posts: 1,078

Raise more preflop! Calling the re raise is ok, your OOP(out of position).
This is a good flop for you there are no over cards, but villain could also have a PP (pocket pair) or an Over Pair like your self.
Your check on the flop is weak.
You gave villain no reason to fold or even to reraise you. You have no Idea where your hand stands? Did villain hit his set? Given there are no reads you dont know if he is playing his AK / AQ/ AXs/ JJ/ QQ/ KK/ KQ/ KJ/ thinking he is good.
next time raise more Preflop, then when someone reraises you, you can narrow their hands down.
HAVE A PLAN FOR EVERY HAND YOU PLAY. Before you bet or call ask yourself, what is my plan here.

3 3 3 I'm only half evil.

Lonny

02-18-2008, 07:17 PM

#4 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 51

His preflop aggression was 7% and his overall aggression was 5,88.

So my mistake was not that I did not folded preflop, but that I did not try to find out what he had.

0,3 was the standard raise at that table, so I would not like to give my hand away by betting any different that I used to.

So what I should have done was betting into him on the flop, and then if he re-raised me I could assume that he was not having AQ+ but instead had some kind of overpair?
If I had done this, lets say I bet the pot (2.5$) and he had re-raised med then I could safely assume that he have my JJ beaten?

But I do see the point, the way I played the hand I newer knew for real if I was beaten and therefore I could not let the hand go. But had I been betting into him it would have been an easier choice and I could have saved a lot of my stack

thanks both of you for your answers, they where very helpfull

wesrman

02-18-2008, 11:36 PM

#5 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2007

Location: Leaf Nation

Posts: 654

Raise pre flop 4 times the big blind plus one big blind more for each limper allready in the pot.
C- bet this flop, you may take it down right there.

If you are new to cash games you will have to make some adjustments to your game.
Are you using proper bankroll management ???
this is especially necessary while you are learning to switch from tourneys to cash.

Good luck, and feel free to ask questions.
The people here are willing to help.

Lonny

02-22-2008, 04:04 PM

#6 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 51

Hi wesrman

Thank you for your answer

No I did not have the proper bankroll, so after your post I deposited some more money and then had 12 times Buy in. But that did not seem to chance anything - so now I have deposited 20 times Buy in...

I have seen many different sugestion on how big your bankroll should be according to Buy in, so I am not sure on how much (but maybe that also differs from person to person?) I should have according to the buy in?

I think maybe for me it should be between 20 - 30 times the buy in, what do the rest of you have?

Kind regards

Lonny

Lonny

02-22-2008, 04:10 PM Post subject: Was this one better?

#7 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 51

I tried to do it they way you suggested in here and think I saved some money by doing that, but was is correctly played (except that I probaly should have raised 4 x BB, not that it would have made any difference,I think)?

$10 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, February 20, 17:01:15 ET 2008
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 10
MP2 ($11.11)
MP3 ($11.14)
CO ($11.55)
Button ($12.30)
SB ($2.45)
BB ($1.90)
Hero ($18.62)
UTG+1 ($7.95)
UTG+2 ($9.70)
MP1 ($10.30)

Preflop:
Hero is UTG with [ Td Ts ]
Hero raises to $0.30
UTG+1 calls $0.30
1 fold
MP1 raises to $1.2
6 folds
Hero calls $0.90,
UTG+1 calls $0.90.

** Dealing Flop ** [ 7s, 5d, 2h ]

Hero bets $3
UTG+1 folds
MP1 calls $10.30 (All-In)
Hero folds.

Final Pot:$17.05

wesrman

02-22-2008, 04:14 PM

#8 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Dec 2007

Location: Leaf Nation

Posts: 654

Try using the converter. It makes it much easier to follow.

http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php

mrhappy333

02-22-2008, 04:23 PM

#9 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Hartford, CT

Posts: 1,078

Quote:

Originally Posted by wesrman

Try using the converter. It makes sit much easier to follow.

http://poker-tools.flopturnriver.com/Hand-Converter.php

Qft!!

This is tuff here. Villain could have AK, AQ, AA, KK, QQ, JJ. Its a good flop for you, villain doesn't have alot left behind if he calls the $3 bet. I prolly call his shove.

3 3 3 I'm only half evil.

Lonny

02-22-2008, 04:24 PM

#10 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 51

I can not use the converter until I have made 10 posts

I forgot to tell that Villain sees 19,2% of his hands and raises 9% preflop and have total aggression on 1,91 - if this makes any difference according to making the Decision

mrhappy333

02-22-2008, 04:41 PM

#11 (permalink)

Full House

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Hartford, CT

Posts: 1,078

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonny

I can not use the converter until I have made 10 posts

I forgot to tell that Villain sees 19,2% of his hands and raises 9% preflop and have total aggression on 1,91 - if this makes any difference according to making the Decision

yes that helps out. Probly a good fold.

If villain was +55% easy call.
villain being less than 20% is a good fold here. IMO, but I would still call his shove.

3 3 3 I'm only half evil.

Lonny

02-23-2008, 01:04 PM

#12 (permalink)

Join Date: Feb 2008

Posts: 51

So it was ok played compared to my JJ's (where I did not play correctly)?

TylerDurden

02-25-2008, 12:52 PM

#13 (permalink)

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 22

As others have said, your preflop raise was too small, and I'd have bet out between 1/2 pot and the pot at the flop, then if I got reraised thought about whether to push or fold from there based on my read.

Also, as others have said, be aware that players at this level are often too passive when they are tight - it may be that this hand was not the point, you could quite possibly have picked up 10x the size of this pot in dead money off this guy over an hour or two with more aggression.

--
TylerDurden

Renton

02-25-2008, 07:42 PM

#14 (permalink)

Straight Flush

Join Date: Jan 2006

Location: Atlanta, GA, USA

Posts: 5,991

i would fold turn

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JJ - Should I have folded preflop

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