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JJ OOP multi-way, ugly flop

  
 
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zook
Old 04-25-2007, 11:26 PM     Post subject: JJ OOP multi-way, ugly flop #1 (permalink)  
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Don't know too much about the other players, the ones left to act are a little looser than your average 400NL FR regular (BB is 20/10/3 over 350, MP3 is 33/10/2 over 100, Button is 28/12/4 over 150).

Is this a c/f spot? If you c-bet, how do you respond to a raise, or a call followed by a blank turn?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG+1 ($273.40)
MP1 ($603.10)
MP2 ($343.70)
MP3 ($403.70)
CO ($234)
Button ($367.10)
SB ($431.70)
BB ($403.40)
Hero ($400)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J, J.
Hero raises to $14, 3 folds, MP3 calls $14, 1 fold, Button calls $14, 1 fold, BB calls $10.

Flop: ($58) 2, 9, T (4 players)
BB checks, Hero...
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Miffed22001
Old 04-25-2007, 11:34 PM #2 (permalink)  
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 i wouldnt c-bet but looking at their stats we have to assume someone flopped something better than jacks.

My first thought is c/r but we could just end up spewing into a flopped flush with no outs.

I dont see c/c donk blank turn being tooo bad but same applies that a flopped flush would just slow it down a bit
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cardsman1992
Old 04-26-2007, 08:12 PM #3 (permalink)  
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I can't bet into this flop without a heart, I don't think....
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zook
Old 04-26-2007, 09:17 PM #4 (permalink)  
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I think this hand is interesting. Almost identical to QQ no heart, very similar to KK, and close enough to AA...
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Vi-Zer0Skill
Old 04-26-2007, 09:57 PM #5 (permalink)  
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 I d/c my computer when i get into situations like this ... j/k

I like c/f best, even though i am usually quite aggro. If it wasn't multiway and you weren't OOP to almost everyone, i would probably bet the flop.
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cardsman1992
Old 04-27-2007, 01:44 AM #6 (permalink)  
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I agree, in position a bet would work better. I don't think you have enough equity in the pot with any overpair lacking a heart to bloat the pot OOP.....
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zook
Old 04-27-2007, 04:26 PM #7 (permalink)  
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I agree that c/f is best with this hand. How about with AA?
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cardsman1992
Old 04-27-2007, 05:10 PM #8 (permalink)  
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I think check call might be in order there with AA no heart.

Calls behind you, unless you have passive reads, are not usually pairs that beat you. I think check call, while being a passive line, lets us reevaluate turn and show down cheaper......
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Vi-Zer0Skill
Old 04-28-2007, 07:22 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 Same board, opps, and position, but with A-A...

I think i c/r min raise and a shove on a non heart turn would be a good line. You get Button's Ah-x/Kh-x to call the flop raise and force him out on the turn with a big bet. If Button has a set or flush he will probably push you out on the flop. You don't even pay a ton to find out if your A-A is behind by using the c/r min raise, relative to the stakes.

MP isn't really going to give you problems on the flop, if his hand is a draw. Just 2/3-3/4PSB turn to get him out if the flop gets checked around. If he bets the flop, then i would call and lead the turn 2/3-3/4PSB. If he calls/raises then i would shut down.

If both players are in the pot on the turn, it gets a little more complicated. If MP lead the flop, i would probably want to c/f in this spot. If Button lead the flop then it is more likely that both of your opponents are holding drawing hands. Then i would probably shove the turn.
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Miffed22001
Old 04-30-2007, 10:20 PM #10 (permalink)  
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 i abhore c/f'ing this flop. But i think all other lines have merits. We need a feel for what you opponents are going to do to know whether we bet flop or c/r
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djzcko
Old 05-01-2007, 04:44 PM #11 (permalink)  
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monotone flop, OOP, multiple villains, and overpair with possibly no outs...that is a hand I don't bet. I check/fold this one to any aggression. Even if I had position and it checked to me, I would still check it to see what they do on the turn. There are too many in the hand for this to not have hit somebody.
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