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samsonite2100
Old 06-19-2006, 08:41 PM     Post subject: JJ OOP #1 (permalink)  
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Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP1 ($101.35)
MP2 ($50.00)
MP3 ($24.10)
CO ($19.00)
Button ($48.65)
Hero ($54.50)
BB ($49.75)
UTG ($39.25)
UTG+1 ($38.60)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J, J. MP2 posts a blind of $0.50. CO posts a blind of $0.50. Hero posts a blind of $0.25.
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.50, MP2 (poster) checks, 1 fold, CO (poster) checks, 1 fold, Hero (poster) raises to $3.5, 1 fold, MP1 calls $3, MP2 folds, CO folds.

Flop: ($8.50) 9, 5, T (2 players)
Hero bets $6, MP1 calls $6.

Turn: ($20.50) 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP1 checks.

River: ($20.50) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $6, MP1 calls $6.


Final Pot: $32.50

What do you think of my line here? I checked the turn b/c I was OOP and thought pot control was in order. When he checked behind and the river came blank, I figured I should value bet--would you bet more there?
 
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mxiu
Old 06-19-2006, 09:21 PM #2 (permalink)  
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Half pot on the river from me.
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andy-akb
Old 06-19-2006, 09:52 PM #3 (permalink)  
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Preflop I may consider raising a little less simply because you are going to be first to act every street with a hand that is often hard to play OOP. You still want value but you may not want to build a huge pot before seeing the flop.

Im not a huge fan of a less than half pot value bet, what do you do if villain raises here? I agree with mxiu that here I would typically bet 1/2 pot.

Im not sure about the turn check, but that could be a leak in my game. The flop brought a very draw heavy board and the turn was a blank, I think a bet here would be good both for value and protection. What do people think of that?
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Fnord
Old 06-19-2006, 10:06 PM #4 (permalink)  
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Make it less obvious you're blocking the river.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBvge-c2_Xg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w-Xz8aLuD7Y
 
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samsonite2100
Old 06-19-2006, 10:13 PM #5 (permalink)  
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It was a value bet--I thought I was ahead.
 
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zook
Old 06-19-2006, 10:21 PM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-akb
Im not sure about the turn check, but that could be a leak in my game. The flop brought a very draw heavy board and the turn was a blank, I think a bet here would be good both for value and protection. What do people think of that?
I agree. Against an unknown I lead the turn for $10. If you have a read that he's a solid player then I like your line, but with a 1/2-pot river bet, as mentioned above.
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andy-akb
Old 06-19-2006, 10:49 PM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samsonite2100
It was a value bet--I thought I was ahead.
If its value then why not make it a little larger? How do you respond if it is raised?

The problem with tiny value bets is what it does to your blocking bets, blocking bets essentially need to be smaller than your value bets, when you make tiny value bets your blocking bets serve no real purpose.
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samsonite2100
Old 06-19-2006, 11:11 PM #8 (permalink)  
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Quote:
The problem with tiny value bets is what it does to your blocking bets, blocking bets essentially need to be smaller than your value bets, when you make tiny value bets your blocking bets serve no real purpose.
Explain this to me. Intuitively, shouldn't your standard value and blocking bet be similar sizes? Otherwise it would be pretty easy to tell when you have something and when you don't.
 
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Renton
Old 06-20-2006, 12:55 AM #9 (permalink)  
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 I like overbetting the pot on the river in spots like this.

And it makes my overpairs show a significantly better profit as a result.

Also betting the turn would have probably been a better course of action, considering how often this is a draw we are up against.

But you can make a killing off of fish with overpairs by using the c.bet flop/check turn/ overbet river line. It so looks like you are making a last stab with AK UI.
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Renton
Old 06-20-2006, 01:03 AM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy-akb
Preflop I may consider raising a little less simply because you are going to be first to act every street with a hand that is often hard to play OOP.
The following is an excerpt from NLHE: Theory and Practice

"Concept No. 8: Other things being equal, when you're in one of the blinds your preflop raises should generally be a little larger than normal. There are three reasons why you should usually raise larger amounts from the blinds:

1. Since you'll have to play the rest of the hand out of position, you don't mind winning the pot immediately as much as you might if you could play in position. Put another way, when you raise in position, often you'll want your opponents to call you. When you raise from the blinds, you'll want calls less often, and when you do want calls, you won't want them as strongly.

2. When your opponents call your raise with position and a weaker hand, often they'll be relying on implied odds to make their calls profitable. Big raises cut down your opponents' implied odds.

3. Out of position it is more important that you can narrow down your opponents' possible hands. You can't do that with a small raise."
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