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JJ with an A high flop

  
 
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Trashcona
Old 12-28-2006, 03:33 PM     Post subject: JJ with an A high flop #1 (permalink)  
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 The button has just taken a seat at the table about ten hands prior to this one so no real reads. Is my flop bet completely horrible here in a multiway pot? Also the way this did play, should I have maybe made a blocking bet on the river? What's my line here? Thanks for the help.


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

UTG ($5.85)
UTG+1 ($9.75)
MP1 ($3.40)
MP2 ($9.85)
Hero ($19.30)
Button ($11.55)
SB ($7.70)
BB ($7.75)

Preflop: Hero is CO with , .
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.10, MP1 calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.7, Button calls $0.70, 1 fold, BB calls $0.60, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls $0.60.

Flop: ($2.95) , , (4 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets $2, Button calls $2, BB folds, MP1 folds.

Turn: ($6.95) (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: ($6.95) (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $3, Hero ??????.
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mixchange
Old 12-28-2006, 04:56 PM #2 (permalink)  
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I think you call, as the ace is going to continue to bet on the turn with draws out there. It's only $3 more to win $10, I take this risk.
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Miffed22001
Old 12-28-2006, 05:28 PM #3 (permalink)  
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 i think you bet the turn, killing drawing odds and check/fold if the draw hits and check behind anyway if the river is a blank.
This is one of the spots where if you are beaten youll get raised on the turn and can fold, but you may be up against someone drawing.

As played, call the river, youre probably good enough often enough.
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wufwugy
Old 12-28-2006, 11:49 PM #4 (permalink)  
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 my games are different than Stars 10NL, but i check flop because somebody usually has an ace. especially since it seems people like to coldcall with an ace more often than limp.
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Pelion
Old 12-29-2006, 01:42 AM #5 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
This is one of the spots where if you are beaten youll get raised on the turn and can fold, but you may be up against someone drawing.
80%+ of stars 10NL players wont raise their AT-AK on the turn. Youll get raised by monster hands but probably not by just a weak ace.

You also cant check behind since youre out of position.

Against 3 players Id rather check the flop and bet a blank turn. Theyll call with an A or either of the draws and you wont know where you are on the turn. This is one of those flops that I tend to give up on against loose players. Ill probably make a bet at weakness later in the hand but I dont want to build a flop pot when its probably getting taken away from me later.
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Miffed22001
Old 12-29-2006, 02:13 AM #6 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelion
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
This is one of the spots where if you are beaten youll get raised on the turn and can fold, but you may be up against someone drawing.
80%+ of stars 10NL players wont raise their AT-AK on the turn. Youll get raised by monster hands but probably not by just a weak ace.

You also cant check behind since youre out of position.

Against 3 players Id rather check the flop and bet a blank turn. Theyll call with an A or either of the draws and you wont know where you are on the turn. This is one of those flops that I tend to give up on against loose players. Ill probably make a bet at weakness later in the hand but I dont want to build a flop pot when its probably getting taken away from me later.
checking behind and then getting led into on two streets sucks if we take that line of checking the flop. Afterall, how often do we actually have a hand here anyway after a pfr? If opp led into me i can agree to folding but i still think their is more value in betting and probably getting value from chasers than their is versus the amount of times JJ no goot here.
certianly, i agree strongly with your line, i just feel we need to balance it to steal pots that are maybe ours to steal while not giving chasers free cards in a situation i think we are ahead in >50% of the time.
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Trashcona
Old 12-29-2006, 05:59 PM #7 (permalink)  
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 Thanks for the replies. Here's what I was thinking at the time. I didn't really put the button on a drawing hand simply based on pot odds(how many people try and figure out implied odds at these stakes?). I did however figure that the two other callers where on drawing hands or small to mid PP's.

After the flop I decided to make the bet even with the scare card to try and chase any drawing hands or take down the pot right then and there, I try and c-bet whenever possible. When the button calls again I'm really putting him on an ace at this point and at this point I think is where I made my biggest mistake(I essentially gave up on the hand). Had I not been weak on the turn I think I could have had a much better idea of where I was in the hand.

By the time the river card was turned I was done with the hand. I did think long and hard about calling his river bet and looking back I probably should have, but in the end I folded. About ten hands later the guy left the table with 40+vpip/20+pfr. Small sample I know but it didn't make me feel any better, lol.
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