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JJ against 3bet pf

  
 
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givememyleg
Old 07-08-2008, 08:14 AM     Post subject: JJ against 3bet pf #1 (permalink)  
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 PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (7 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($20)
Hero ($195.50)
MP1 ($60.40)
MP2 ($99.50)
CO ($100)
Button ($39.70)
SB ($87.50)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J, J.
Hero raises to $3, 1 fold, MP2 raises to $10, 4 folds, Hero calls $7.

Flop: ($21.50) 2, T, 3 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets $16, Hero calls $16.

Turn: ($53.50) 7 (2 players)
Hero checks, MP2 bets $20, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $53.50

MP2 is 15/15 over only 25 hands and this is his first 3bet. Given I'm UTG I thought I had to fold. Comments anywhere appreciated.

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daven
Old 07-08-2008, 08:25 AM #2 (permalink)  
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 pre-flop is ok if villain's range includes AK and if you play the flop well. But you need a plan.
If you're happy to check-call a psb, but not happy to get it in vs a 1/2psb turn bet then there is something wrong.

Lead flop 3/4psb, fold to push is far healthier and gets rid of QQ a lot.

As played I probably block turn for $15
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givememyleg
Old 07-08-2008, 08:43 AM #3 (permalink)  
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 Why is there something wrong with not calling a "I'm trying to look weak please god let him push over" bet on the turn? He knows he will be able to shove river if I call again.

And I highly doubt he folds QQ to one bet on this flop, ever.

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daven
Old 07-08-2008, 09:15 AM #4 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by givememyleg
Why is there something wrong with not calling a "I'm trying to look weak please god let him push over" bet on the turn? He knows he will be able to shove river if I call again.

And I highly doubt he folds QQ to one bet on this flop, ever.
Are you check-calling the flop to get a cheap show-down vs AK? Or? I still don;t like your flop/turn line as a combination.

You are right, there is nothing wrong with not calling that turn bet as played, which suggests that a mistake was made on the flop, or in checking the turn.

but, heck, my lines are far from great! I'm replying to hands here more often for a while to get critique on my hand analysis as much as anything - cos if I think something is right and nobody else does, then it's likely i should re-think
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jimmy44
Old 07-08-2008, 09:43 AM #5 (permalink)  
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 I like the way you played it!
As your UTG and you called his 3bet villain needs to be wary. And I don't think there are a lot of villain who 2barrils low boards against UTG raisers without a hand!
Quote:
Originally Posted by daven
Lead flop 3/4psb, fold to push is far healthier and gets rid of QQ a lot.
The problem of this play is that you're repping what you have (or maybe AK also) and you're basically saying: push and I'll fold. With KK+ you would check-raise.
Plus, QQ will never fold here.
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aka_red
Old 07-08-2008, 09:47 AM #6 (permalink)  
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i dont think you can play this hand profitably given circumstances. i fold to 3b.
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daven
Old 07-08-2008, 09:56 AM #7 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy44
The problem of this play is that you're repping what you have (or maybe AK also).
or TT/KK/AA
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badgers
Old 07-08-2008, 10:13 AM #8 (permalink)  
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I think we can just about call pre for set value but then I would c/f flop, reverse implied odds = ewww.
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aka_red
Old 07-08-2008, 10:25 AM #9 (permalink)  
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make it 4$ pf.
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jimmy44
Old 07-08-2008, 03:04 PM #10 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daven
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmy44
The problem of this play is that you're repping what you have (or maybe AK also).
or TT/KK/AA
You never bet 3/4 with the nuts OOP against a 3bettor! You might bet 1/2 or 1/3.
With KK+ you will check-raise this FLOP.
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badgers
Old 07-08-2008, 03:36 PM #11 (permalink)  
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Yeah there's no way I'm leading this flop without history.
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gametight
Old 07-08-2008, 03:48 PM #12 (permalink)  
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Call pre all day

I probly dump on the flop... you may fold the best hand once in a while but being oop, you are not going to be able to play the rest of the hand profitably against a semi-competent oppent.
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givememyleg
Old 07-08-2008, 07:05 PM #13 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daven
Quote:
Originally Posted by givememyleg
Why is there something wrong with not calling a "I'm trying to look weak please god let him push over" bet on the turn? He knows he will be able to shove river if I call again.

And I highly doubt he folds QQ to one bet on this flop, ever.
Are you check-calling the flop to get a cheap show-down vs AK? Or? I still don;t like your flop/turn line as a combination.

You are right, there is nothing wrong with not calling that turn bet as played, which suggests that a mistake was made on the flop, or in checking the turn.

but, heck, my lines are far from great! I'm replying to hands here more often for a while to get critique on my hand analysis as much as anything - cos if I think something is right and nobody else does, then it's likely i should re-think
Yeah I don't like my flop/turn either - I think you're right the mistake is on the flop.

Thanks everyone for the advice - looks like I should just c/f.

Question - let's say instead of JJ I had QQ, how would my plan change?

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euphoricism
Old 07-08-2008, 07:12 PM #14 (permalink)  
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I c/f this flop with JJ. With QQ, IDK, something makes me want to go to showdown. Like OMG ITS QQ! C/F the flop with QQ just feels epic weak but I think its correct.
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pokerfan
Old 07-08-2008, 09:12 PM #15 (permalink)  
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i call his flop bet with QQ and fold to his double barrel. I think you should raise to $4 UTG with JJ and call his 3 bet for set value definitely. By the way, i only like $3 preflop raise in late positions.
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Keilah
Old 07-09-2008, 12:35 AM #16 (permalink)  
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I've been experimenting with 4xBB in EP/MP and 3x LP and SB. I think I like it, but the jury's still out on 3x in the SB.
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badgers
Old 07-09-2008, 12:55 AM #17 (permalink)  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keilah
but the jury's still out on 3x in the SB.
i think 3x from the SB with a wide range gives great odds for them to call and position rape you.
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givememyleg
Old 07-09-2008, 04:57 AM #18 (permalink)  
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 Yeah I'm going to start doing 4x from EP and sb, and 3x elsewhere.

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